Victorian Eberron idea

drothgery

First Post
Edit: Recruiting thread at http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=3472737

I've got an idea bouncing around in my head for a game, so I'm trying to figure out...
- if there's any interest in the proposed setting and
- if the rules I'm thinking of using make sense

The basic notion is this...

There were, perhaps, many ways to have stopped what happened in the centuries after the fall of Galifar. Perhaps with more direct aid, the Kalashtar of Adar could have prevented the Quori from building the devices across all of Riedra which allowed them to manifest themselves in Eberron. Perhaps if the Druids of the Reaches had maintained faith with the Gatekeepers instead of turning to other traditions, they would have had the strength to close the doorways that the Inspired had opened. Perhaps if the wizards of Arcanix had been more convinced of their own power, and less desperate, they would not have attempted to free what was bound in Khyber in hopes that two great evils would destroy each other. Perhaps if the peoples of the Five Nations had been more vigilant, the cults of the Dragon Below would have been destroyed, and there would have been nothing for them to find and use to succeed to some degree. Perhaps if the wounds between Aundair and Thrane had ever been fully healed, Aundair would have heeded the warnings the oracles of Church of the Silver Flame had sent.

But it had happened, and as great evils fought each other and the great heroes that tried to stop them -- the Kalashtar died to the last, as did the last of the Gatekeepers. The armies of the Five Nations. By the time the Keeper of the Flame sacrificed himself to bind the last, all of the old peoples save for humankind were reduced to tiny, isolated communities or destroyed entirely.

And though that was well over a thousand years ago as of this writing, only humanity has truly risen from the ashes. But the great magics that were unleashed in that desperate struggle are almost entirely lost. Bards songs no longer command power, the spellbooks of the wizards of the Arcane Congress are lost, and there has not been one born with powers of sorcery or any true or aberrant Dragonmark in over a millenia. Some who channel primal forces of good and evil still command as much power as they did in days long past, and the archivists claim with the proper focus any magic is still possible. But the days of magewrights by the scores working in the great cities is long past.

Fortunately, the minds that once would have turned their thoughts to arcane power have persued other endeavours in our time. We have no airships or bound elementals in our time, but we do have rails of iron and steam along the routes the lightning rail once ran, and steamships are reclaiming the seas. Telegraph lines may not be as fast as speaking stones are supposed to have been, but they are no less a wonder. And while mankind's enemies need not fear fireballs, they must take our canon and and muskets into account.

One would think, in an age of such wonders, none would seek out those great evils that remained bound through the cataclysmic end of the last age. But there have always been those who seek shortcuts to power, and those who seek to cheat death. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to stop them.

- Father Mikel ir'Indari, Knight of the Flame, Knight Commander of the Inquisition

mechanically, here's what I'm thinking

allowed classes

- tweaked archivist (learns fewer spells automatically, can gain spells from cleric, druid, healer, dread necromancer, and wizard lists -- and no others)
- tweaked healer (significantly powered up, warmage-style caster, no unicorn, can turn undead)
- tweaked dread necromancer (slightly de-powered, doesn't automatically become a lich)
- tweaked swashbuckler (Living Eberron version: http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2964384&postcount=3)
- tweaked marhsal (find some way to make them not suck)
- paladin
- fighter
- scout
- hexblade
- rogue

equipment notes
- firearms are available, fairly reliable, and are reasonably priced (a first-level character could start with a pistol or musket)
- magic items are extremely expensive (with the exception of holy versions of common weapons, which are merely very expensive)
- extrodinary quality/mastercraft items and alchemical items can duplicate some magical effects
- PCs will get some bonuses to compensate for the lack of magic items

So what do you guys think?

Edit: Here's some summary posts on a few issues for this game -
classes:
http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3451476&postcount=45

bonuses by level:
http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3453361&postcount=49

major nations:
http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3444463&postcount=29

major religions:
http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3445164&postcount=38

notes on magic items:
http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3442724&postcount=9
 
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Ivellious

First Post
First off it sounds great to me, but I do see a few problems with it. First off, granting bonuses for the compensation of less magical items, big problem. You would fair alot better just editing the encounters so that magical items arent need to survive. Second the holy version of common weapons has me questioning what you mean by that. Give an example, leads to less confusion
Other than that I'm game for trying it out.
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
By holy, I'm assuming 'e means +1 holy longsword et al.

So, steampunk Eberron, eh? I assume there are a lot of details left out on purpose (what was the Chamber doing then and now?, etc.) Of course, the question is: W/o wide magic, what makes it still Eberron? Does is still have pulp action? Dark adventure? As an example: While the magic of the houses may be gone, perhaps the economic influences that they once had are or have been rebuilt. Was Cannith behind the train, for example?

I think the Knight from PHBII would be a good fit. You can check the changes we made to the Swashbuckler in Living Eberron to see on that may not suck as much.

The ir'Indari's just can't die, can they? ;)

I enjoyed your previous game, so I'm interested in seeing this develop.
 

drothgery

First Post
Ivellious said:
First off it sounds great to me, but I do see a few problems with it. First off, granting bonuses for the compensation of less magical items, big problem. You would fair alot better just editing the encounters so that magical items arent need to survive.

I think that results in pretty serious balance problems. I'm leaving a few major caster classes (i.e. those that get 9 levels of spells/powers) in the game, and my experience with low magic item games says that major casters will dominate said games beyond very low levels if I don't do something to help the non-casters.

Ivellious said:
Second the holy version of common weapons has me questioning what you mean by that. Give an example, leads to less confusion.

Exactly what I said. Basically, people who can make magic weapons are very rare, and are, with very few exceptions, high level archivists who work for the Church of the Silver Flame. Hence most magic weapons that are the kind of things the Church would want made; i.e. holy swords, bows, crossbows, and firearms. Anything else that's around is probably a pre-cataclysm antique, which a collector might sell, but finding one and arranging a purchase will probably be an adventurer in it's own right.
 

drothgery

First Post
stonegod said:
By holy, I'm assuming 'e means +1 holy longsword et al.

Yup.

stonegod said:
So, steampunk Eberron, eh? I assume there are a lot of details left out on purpose (what was the Chamber doing then and now?, etc.)

That, and because I haven't really figured them out. It's safe to assume, though, that dragons are even more rare in this game than in 'standard' Eberron -- and an encountered dragon is never just hungry.

stonegod said:
Of course, the question is: W/o wide magic, what makes it still Eberron? Does is still have pulp action? Dark adventure? As an example: While the magic of the houses may be gone, perhaps the economic influences that they once had are or have been rebuilt. Was Cannith behind the train, for example?

All very good questions. But it should definitely have pulp action and dark adventure, but the trappings will feature more technology (ableit 1800s-ish), and more subtle magic. I'll admit straight out that probably half the reason this is Eberron is because I didn't want to build my own cosmology or ancient myths of fallen civilizations up from scratch.

stonegod said:
I think the Knight from PHBII would be a good fit.

In a lot of ways it would, but it'd definitely need tweaking; heavily armored horsemen with lances are definitely on their way out. I may need to do something with paladins, too, since neither the special mount nor the PHB2 alternative really plays well.

stonegod said:
You can check the changes we made to the Swashbuckler in Living Eberron to see on that may not suck as much.

Will do.

stonegod said:
The ir'Indari's just can't die, can they? ;)

Of course not.

stonegod said:
I enjoyed your previous game, so I'm interested in seeing this develop.

Thanks.
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
drothgery said:
In a lot of ways it would, but it'd definitely need tweaking; heavily armored horsemen with lances are definitely on their way out. I may need to do something with paladins, too, since neither the special mount nor the PHB2 alternative really plays well.
For Knights, taking away the bonus mounted feat would help address that; removing the Heavy Armor Prof. for most martial classes might nerf the big tin cans. If knights are mounted calvary, than keeping the feat but introducing a feat chain or tweaking so that it assists with firearms and mounts might be the right thing.

As for balancing w/ the new armor, you may want to consider the Armor as DR or Defense Bonus variants as presented in UA. The latter works really well in a setting w/ less armor.
 

pathfinderq1

First Post
This does sound interesting, and it meshes quite well with some ideas I had been thinking about as well- some of the elements from Eberron seem to fit quite well with Victoriana/steampunk. If you have done so already, you might want to read Iron Council and Perdido Street Station by China Mieville. Both feature a very steampunky setting with some pure magical elements (Constructs, alchemy, and golems, for example, and part of Perdido features a party of very Eberron-ish "adventurers"- including one wielding an enchanted flintlock pistol).

I'll be very interested in seeing how this idea developes.
 

drothgery

First Post
stonegod said:
As for balancing w/ the new armor, you may want to consider the Armor as DR or Defense Bonus variants as presented in UA. The latter works really well in a setting w/ less armor.

I'm definitely leaning pretty strongly to the Defense Bonus variant, and I like the suggestion of dropping heavy armor prof from the classes that get it (though they'd still get to use the best class defense bonus).

Also, I think I'm taking your suggestion of using the Living Eberron modifications for a swashbuckler that doesn't suck...
http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2964384&postcount=3
 

drothgery

First Post
Magic items and 'the big six'

This game, if I run it, will be a fairly low-magic item setting. But, as I mentioned above, I believe that if you're keeping some 9 spell level casters around (and I am), then it's just not possible to have a balanced game without providing some alternative to the lost magic items. So here's where I'm going with that...


armor (normally provided by armor, shields, rings of protection, and amulets of natural armor)

- characters will have a class defense bonus, as per unearthed aracana
- I'm unsure if I'll need to do anything beyond this; if I don't, characters will have significantly lower armor classes at mid levels and higher than they would in standard D&D

weapons

- firearms will be available; exact cost and stats are to be determined, but they should be reflective of the general mid-1800s Europe tech level. Whatever stats I end up using, personal weapons will not have a missfire chance, and will be mechanically superior to crossbows.
- mastercraft weapons will be available. Although produced by craftsman in a manner similar to masterwork weapons, they provide the same effect (at the same cost) as +1 to +5 enhancement bonuses, though they do not overcome DR/magic
- the following qualities can be produced alchemically, and added to mastercraft weapons
* flaming
* flaming burst
* frost
* icy burst
* shock
* shocking burst
* keen
- rather than the bonuses described in the Eberron campaign setting, beyshyk weapons are always treated as magic (though this provides no other bonus)
- holy weapons are available, albeit at a significant markup (to be determined) from DMG price
- other weapons may (rarely) exist as ancient relics, or, even more rarely, be newly crafted, but in any case acquiring one will be a major task, not a simple financial transaction

stat boosters (gloves of dexterity, headbands of intellect, amulets of health, belts of strength, cloaks of charsima, periapts of wisdom)
- characters will gain more stat bonuses than the standard +1 every 4 levels

I'm not sure what will be best here; my working idea is a +2 at every other level, and you can't improve the same stat twice in a row. My thinking on this is that when I built a 14th-level standard wealth character a few weeks ago, he had a +6 item, two +4 items, and three +1 bonuses from levels; by 20th level, that would have been three +6 items, possibly a book or two, and +5 from levels. So acquiring 20 points of stat boosts, with no one stat picking up more than +10, over 20 levels seems reasonable.

save boosters (cloak/vest of resistance)
- charactesr will gain a +1 resistance bonus to saves every 4 levels
 
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