Afrodyte
Explorer
Although I generally like the idea of classes in D&D, sometimes I feel straight-jacketed by the role they are supposed to play, especially in classes that can fill a variety of niches such as the Big Four (cleric, fighter, rogue, wizard) but also in classes with a slightly narrower range of options such as the ranger. An idea I've considered is transporting the idea of talent trees from D20 Modern which would break up the basic niches of the class into distinct units and allow the player to determine which aspects he wants to focus on. My only question is: How would you structure such a thing, and what types of talent trees would you use for each class? At which levels should they get talents? Should bonus feats be available? Which ones?
Off the top of my head, these are some of the talent tree ideas I have:
Barbarian: All of the Tough Hero's talent trees, and perhaps the Strong Hero's talent trees as well. Add a new talent tree for Rage.
Bard: The Charismatic Hero's Charm talent tree and perhaps the Dedicated Hero's Empathic talent tree. Maybe give minor magical healing abilities as an extension of it. Add a new talent tree for Inspire. Add fascinate, suggestion, and mass suggestion to the Charm talent tree. Need something for countersong and song of freedom. Maybe Power of Music or something like it. It'd need a few more talents though.
Cleric: Not sure, but I want to have different talent trees for different types of cleric. Lift the Healing talent tree from the Dedicated Hero for clerics, adding spontaneous cure spells to the list of talents in that tree. Maybe have different talent trees based on the major alignment elements (chaotic, evil, good, lawful, neutral).
Druid: Not sure for this one either. Many say the PHB druid is too powerful, breaking down the abilities into various talent trees can help while still allowing for the flavor of the PHB druid. Maybe one talent tree based upon wild empathy (which would include the animal companion(s)), one based on wild shape, and one based on wilderness lore. Not sure where things like venom immunity and timeless body would fit, though.
Fighter: Too many ideas to count, but I'd rather not base them on the particular weapons used. I had designed a fighter that had 4 styles which determined how each fighter approached combat, with particular weapon and armor choices being optimal for them. The styles were: fencing (focusing on speed and precision), juggernaut (focusing on brute strength and toughness), marksman (focusing on defeating opponents from afar), and strategist (focusing on using superior intelligence, tactics, and strategy). In addition to some of the things I designed myself, I think each talent tree would import some of the abilities from the D20 Modern classes. The Fencer talent tree would likely include the Fast Hero's Defensive talent trees. The Juggernaut talent tree would have the Strong Hero's and Tough Hero's talent trees. I'd have to create a Marksman talent tree, but it'd have bonuses beyond what can be gained from the archery feats. The Strategist talent tree would be based off the Smart Hero's Strategy talent tree and likely the Dedicated Hero's Insightful talent tree. The Charismatic Hero's Leadership talent tree may be worthwhile as well, since the commanders of armies and navies would likely have Strategist talents. I have some other abilities on file, though, but I don't think I have enough room to discuss them now.
Monk: Not sure. The PHB monk is so closely aligned with the Shaolin monk archetype that it's hard to justify talent trees for this class. At the very least, I think separating the martial artist from the ascetic mystic may be a good start.
Paladin: Not sure for this one either. Like the monk, the paladin fits such a specific niche that breaking it down into talent trees may not be worth it. Having a separate talent tree for the paladin's mount, one for smiting, and one for the mystical aspect may be worth a try.
Ranger: This seems to be the easiest one to make trees for. Definitely include a Favored Enemy talent tree as well as a Wild Empathy talent tree (which is where the animal companion would come from). Contemplating adding one called the Scout talent tree, which would aid rangers in movement and stealth in the wilderness and might include tracking abilities. Many of the ranger's spells may be turned into talents which can be used a number of times per day equal to the ranger's Wisdom modifier per day, or some other sort of limit. Might have another tree for more urban abilities.
Rogue: The rogue has three very different aspects that would work wonderfully as talent trees: the burglar, the cutthroat (or thug, or dirty fighter, take your pick), and the face. The Burglar talent tree would have talents related to stealth, stealing, and trapfinding, which works for the rogue. The Cutthroat talent tree would have sneak attack and some of the other combat-based rogue abilities such as opportunist and crippling strike). The Face talent tree may include the Charismatic Hero's Charm talent tree and maybe the Dedicated Hero's Insightful talent tree. Might have to make up something else to make it distinct from the bard.
Sorcerer: A lot of people seem to like lineage abilities for the sorcerer, so creating talent trees based off them could work, especially as a way of distinguishing the sorcerer from the wizard. The lineage talents would work similarly to the bloodline abilities from Unearthed Arcana, giving automatic spells known and additional spells per day of a certain type (similar to the cleric's domain abilities). The lineages I'd certainly include would be: celestial, draconic, elemental, fey, and fiendish. I'd probably give another tree for seers and prophets, or include it in one of the lineage trees. I'd likely expand the sorcerer's options for spells to any spell whose school and/or descriptor fits the sorcerer's chosen theme. A separate tree for familiars may or may not be desirable.
Wizard: Wizards tend to perform three functions in parties: artillery, sage, and craftsman. I'd likely base the wizard's talent trees around these roles. The Battle Mage talent tree would most likely include abilities that help combat spellcasting, including but not limited to automatic feats such as Combat Casting and Quicken Spell. Talent trees for specialist wizards that have abilities similar to the options detailed in Unearthed Arcana could be worthwhile too. The Sage talent tree would definitely include the Smart Hero's Research talent tree, but may also feasibly have something akin to the bardic knowledge ability. Like the Battle Mage, the Artificer may have automatic feats, but centered around creating magical items, although I don't necessarily want to limit them to automatic item creation feats. Reduced XP costs and reduced crafting time could work for them too.
I'll give a few examples in my next post of what I'm talking about.
Off the top of my head, these are some of the talent tree ideas I have:
Barbarian: All of the Tough Hero's talent trees, and perhaps the Strong Hero's talent trees as well. Add a new talent tree for Rage.
Bard: The Charismatic Hero's Charm talent tree and perhaps the Dedicated Hero's Empathic talent tree. Maybe give minor magical healing abilities as an extension of it. Add a new talent tree for Inspire. Add fascinate, suggestion, and mass suggestion to the Charm talent tree. Need something for countersong and song of freedom. Maybe Power of Music or something like it. It'd need a few more talents though.
Cleric: Not sure, but I want to have different talent trees for different types of cleric. Lift the Healing talent tree from the Dedicated Hero for clerics, adding spontaneous cure spells to the list of talents in that tree. Maybe have different talent trees based on the major alignment elements (chaotic, evil, good, lawful, neutral).
Druid: Not sure for this one either. Many say the PHB druid is too powerful, breaking down the abilities into various talent trees can help while still allowing for the flavor of the PHB druid. Maybe one talent tree based upon wild empathy (which would include the animal companion(s)), one based on wild shape, and one based on wilderness lore. Not sure where things like venom immunity and timeless body would fit, though.
Fighter: Too many ideas to count, but I'd rather not base them on the particular weapons used. I had designed a fighter that had 4 styles which determined how each fighter approached combat, with particular weapon and armor choices being optimal for them. The styles were: fencing (focusing on speed and precision), juggernaut (focusing on brute strength and toughness), marksman (focusing on defeating opponents from afar), and strategist (focusing on using superior intelligence, tactics, and strategy). In addition to some of the things I designed myself, I think each talent tree would import some of the abilities from the D20 Modern classes. The Fencer talent tree would likely include the Fast Hero's Defensive talent trees. The Juggernaut talent tree would have the Strong Hero's and Tough Hero's talent trees. I'd have to create a Marksman talent tree, but it'd have bonuses beyond what can be gained from the archery feats. The Strategist talent tree would be based off the Smart Hero's Strategy talent tree and likely the Dedicated Hero's Insightful talent tree. The Charismatic Hero's Leadership talent tree may be worthwhile as well, since the commanders of armies and navies would likely have Strategist talents. I have some other abilities on file, though, but I don't think I have enough room to discuss them now.
Monk: Not sure. The PHB monk is so closely aligned with the Shaolin monk archetype that it's hard to justify talent trees for this class. At the very least, I think separating the martial artist from the ascetic mystic may be a good start.
Paladin: Not sure for this one either. Like the monk, the paladin fits such a specific niche that breaking it down into talent trees may not be worth it. Having a separate talent tree for the paladin's mount, one for smiting, and one for the mystical aspect may be worth a try.
Ranger: This seems to be the easiest one to make trees for. Definitely include a Favored Enemy talent tree as well as a Wild Empathy talent tree (which is where the animal companion would come from). Contemplating adding one called the Scout talent tree, which would aid rangers in movement and stealth in the wilderness and might include tracking abilities. Many of the ranger's spells may be turned into talents which can be used a number of times per day equal to the ranger's Wisdom modifier per day, or some other sort of limit. Might have another tree for more urban abilities.
Rogue: The rogue has three very different aspects that would work wonderfully as talent trees: the burglar, the cutthroat (or thug, or dirty fighter, take your pick), and the face. The Burglar talent tree would have talents related to stealth, stealing, and trapfinding, which works for the rogue. The Cutthroat talent tree would have sneak attack and some of the other combat-based rogue abilities such as opportunist and crippling strike). The Face talent tree may include the Charismatic Hero's Charm talent tree and maybe the Dedicated Hero's Insightful talent tree. Might have to make up something else to make it distinct from the bard.
Sorcerer: A lot of people seem to like lineage abilities for the sorcerer, so creating talent trees based off them could work, especially as a way of distinguishing the sorcerer from the wizard. The lineage talents would work similarly to the bloodline abilities from Unearthed Arcana, giving automatic spells known and additional spells per day of a certain type (similar to the cleric's domain abilities). The lineages I'd certainly include would be: celestial, draconic, elemental, fey, and fiendish. I'd probably give another tree for seers and prophets, or include it in one of the lineage trees. I'd likely expand the sorcerer's options for spells to any spell whose school and/or descriptor fits the sorcerer's chosen theme. A separate tree for familiars may or may not be desirable.
Wizard: Wizards tend to perform three functions in parties: artillery, sage, and craftsman. I'd likely base the wizard's talent trees around these roles. The Battle Mage talent tree would most likely include abilities that help combat spellcasting, including but not limited to automatic feats such as Combat Casting and Quicken Spell. Talent trees for specialist wizards that have abilities similar to the options detailed in Unearthed Arcana could be worthwhile too. The Sage talent tree would definitely include the Smart Hero's Research talent tree, but may also feasibly have something akin to the bardic knowledge ability. Like the Battle Mage, the Artificer may have automatic feats, but centered around creating magical items, although I don't necessarily want to limit them to automatic item creation feats. Reduced XP costs and reduced crafting time could work for them too.
I'll give a few examples in my next post of what I'm talking about.
