Magic missle question

Magic Missile

You launch a silvery bolt of force at an enemy.
At-Will Arcane, Force, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 20
Target: One creature
Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex
Hit: 2d4 + Intelligence modifier force damage.
Increase damage to 4d4 + Intelligence modifier at 21st level.
Special: This power counts as a ranged basic attack. When a power allows you to make a ranged basic attack, you can use this power.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Okay, there is the D&D Insider entry for Magic Missle. In our session last night, our DM let the wizard class foes we were facing get Opportunity Attacks against one of our players when he ran past them, using Magic Missle.



I questioned this, because I thought Magic Missle was ranged, and you can't use ranged attacks for OA's. They had implements, but no melee weapons. He said (but I didn't get to see it) that the stat card said that Magic Missle was the creatures basic At will attack and therefore could be used for an OA.

I still disagreed.

Was I wrong on this? Thanks.

He was wrong. OA's grant a MELEE basic attack. MM's are RANGED basic attacks. Sure on the card it has a circle around the ranged symbol making it their basic attack, but it is still a ranged attack.

When you get to take an OA, you get to make a melee basic attack. (See PH page 290) Magic missile is a ranged basic attack.

It's not a problem, because monsters don't follow the same rules as the PCs.

If the monster's damage on the OA was inline with the guidelines it can be magic missiles or lance of faith or a swatting tail.

If it really was a classed template and you want to get really anal the monster took pre-errata reaper's touch, or they're half shadar-ki.

Note: my argument here is that it's fine within the framework to re-flavor the OA as 'magic missiles' as long as that doesn't break the creature's attack and damage guidelines. I wouldn't allow it for PCs, but monsters do not play by the same rules.

The Wizard power Magic Missile, or the name of the power being Magic Missile is irrelevant when it's in a monster stat block. Melee basic attacks indicated with can be used for opportunity attacks (it could be called "Great Balls of Fire", doesn't matter, if it has that symbol, it's a melee basic attack).

Having said that, I doubt Magic Missile for the creature in question was such an attack, so it probably should not be used as an opportunity attack.

Destil said:

It's not a problem, because monsters don't follow the same rules as the PCs.

Click to expand...

Hmm, okay - can you please direct me to where the monster rules are?

Destil said:

If the monster's damage on the OA was inline with the guidelines it can be magic missiles or lance of faith or a swatting tail.

If it really was a classed template and you want to get really anal the monster took pre-errata reaper's touch, or they're half shadar-ki.

Click to expand...

We are playing by all the latest rules and updates. No pre-errata - that was decided when we started this campaign.

Destil said:

Note: my argument here is that it's fine within the framework to re-flavor the OA as 'magic missiles' as long as that doesn't break the creature's attack and damage guidelines. I wouldn't allow it for PCs, but monsters do not play by the same rules.

Click to expand...

Okay, a question then - if the monster gets an OA against the player with a ranged attack, then in turn, does the player get a counter OA since the monster just did a ranged attack adjacent to them? According to the PHB, that is so.

Thanks.

It should be noted that there are some feats that can make stuff like Acid Orb or Magic Missile into Ranged or Melee, and therefore usable for that sort of thing. that, and maybe he's houseruling it: Magic Missile is really not much more powerful than a Falchion or a Glaive from a foe, so him allowing them to use it isn't that bad.

Except that -every- monster in the game has a basic melee attack entry... that being the one with the circle around a sword.

It might not be -named- BMA, but it IS one. Plus, OAs should not themselves trigger OAs.

Okay, thanks for the replies - I finally caught up with the DM in e-mail. The name of the creatures was a "Sons Of Mercy Wizard". Our level 11 party of 7 players faced:

6 Sons of Mercy Wizards (lev 14 artillery)
6 Sons Of Mercy Bashers (lev 13 soldiers)
2 Fire Giant Icefist (level 19 Elite Brutes)

They do have a quarterstaff, which I assume is a melee weapon. In the stat card, it has the circled sword symbol pointing upwards around the first listed At-Will - not Magic Missle. The first listed At-will uses the quarterstaff.

Magic Missle has a circled symbol next to it - but its not the circled sword pointing upwards symbol. (it looks tilted to one side)

So the first At-will with the quarterstaff and the circled sword pointing upwards is what legally should have been used for the OA, right? (which is kind of funny because that one actually looks like it had more potential damage anyways).

DarkLord Of DForce said:

So the first At-will with the quarterstaff and the circled sword pointing upwards is what legally should have been used for the OA, right? (which is kind of funny because that one actually looks like it had more potential damage anyways).

Click to expand...

Correct on both counts. The Quarterstaff attack should have been used. You actually caught a break based on average damage (11.5 Quarterstaff versus 9 MM).