How Much Ore For A Sword?

That should be enough to last them years.

The only problem with this is that trading only every 1-3 years doesn't create a very steady revenue stream. They'd certainly want to haul as much is profitable in one load, but if you're only getting paid once a year (from a small village to boot) or less frequently, the profit is going to need to tide you over for a good, long while.
 

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The only problem with this is that trading only every 1-3 years doesn't create a very steady revenue stream. They'd certainly want to haul as much is profitable in one load, but if you're only getting paid once a year (from a small village to boot) or less frequently, the profit is going to need to tide you over for a good, long while.


When times are lean, the Aesir, like the Cimmerians, resort to raiding. They raid for cattle/chickens/pigs/goats, women, maybe the occasional horse or mule (there are few in the area--those that are there are prized).

The weapons the Aesir get from the Cimmerian village are superior to what they can make on their own. They have the ore--just not the Cimmerian "secret of steel". So what is brought back from the trip every two or three years is prized.

The Aesir are far enough away that the Cimmerians can give them their best stuff without fear of the blade falling into the hands of their enemies.

Who knows....maybe the Aesir trade with a few other clans as well for other types of goods.



In the campaign, the Aesir, after the new clan was established, sent along a young boy, 13 years old, to live among the Cimmerians. The boy was reluctantly accepted, but the Cimmerians did not send one of their own as the Aesir expected. This was not taken well, but it such a journey across the mountain, not made lightly, that the boy stayed among the Foxmen. Today, he's a major NPC, this yellow-hair raised half Aesir and half Cimmerian.

Few other clans--none that the PCs have encountered so far in the campaign--have been able to turn out the quality of steel that is produced on the Duncohr Forge. The symbol, a celtic-looking knot, is placed on every top-quality blade that comes off the Foxman forge. This symbol, in Cimmerian, is the Xean (Zeen), and in a Hyborian tongue would translate to "sunlight" or "sunshine" (or, more specifically, the brightness caused by the sun--which really has no direct translation).

The Xean...

how-to-draw-a-celtic-clover-knot-step-6.jpg
 



The only problem with this is that trading only every 1-3 years doesn't create a very steady revenue stream. They'd certainly want to haul as much is profitable in one load, but if you're only getting paid once a year (from a small village to boot) or less frequently, the profit is going to need to tide you over for a good, long while.

We're not talking about them trading only every 1-3 years, they're getting their raw materials (iron ore or iron) every 1-3 years.

The goods they make out of that iron can be sold whenever is convenient for them, which will smooth out the profit they make.
 

I just gotta say it:

"How much ore could an Aesir mine if an Aesir could mine ore?"

Well they probably aren't mining it per se. It's most likely they're getting their ore from deposits near or on the surface, or from bog iron.

The more I think of this set up the more likely I think this village would be importing iron bars or ingots rather than the raw ore.

Iron has been a standard trade good for a long time and it's simply simpler to transport the processed metal than the raw ore, which'll weigh 2-4 times as much (assuming they're using the relatively inefficient bloomery furnace technique to smelt it).

Also, smelting is a skill in itself. These smiths already have to know general blacksmithing, weaponsmithing and the "secret of steel" (the crucible process?). If they have to be expert smelters as well and smelt all their iron I'm not sure they'd have the time to get everything done.
 

That would be Cimmerian technology--not Hyborian. But, maybe Hyborian, too. I'm simply making the point that the movies show Cimmerian tech, and Cimmerians are not Hyborians.

I was using Hyborian in the sense of "during the Hyborian Age when Conan is set" rather than culturally.

In both movies, the Cimmerians are less "armored-up" than their foes (The Vanir and Zim's men in the newer movie and Doom's men in the '82 pic). They use leather armor and thick, warm furs. You don't see them in chain or anything more formidable. Now, this may be mearly because of scarcity, but some of the stories I've read, and source books for the RPG, describe the Cimmerians as preferring speed and dexterity over heavy armor that weights a person down.

Well, in the case of the movies the Cimmerian aren't ready when their village was raided. They're just going about everyday domestic business when they're attacked by surprise. In the first film most of them didn't even have time to grab a weapon, let alone put on any armour they might have had. In the second film they had a little more time - enough to erect a makeshift palisade (that was apparently useless) and grab their shields.

However, in the remake's precredits scene Conan's mother is clearly wearing some kind of scale armour - looks like lamellar to me - so obviously the Cimmerians have armour and some of them use it. Conn isn't wearing much if any armour in that battle though, but that could just be because Ron Perlman knows he's indestructable. :p

The fact that they're not wearing helmets in that battle is I suspect more to do with a ridiculous "you have to see all the heroes' faces" movie trope than anything that's likely to occur in the real world. Your head is a magnet for killing/crippling blows in battle, they would have had some sort of helmet in any realistic setting.

Anyhow, Cimmerians probably wouldn't have worn very heavy armour going by the little we know of them - they'd have had more trouble "swarming" over the walls of Venarium if they well in full coats of armour. Although for all we know they brought ladders. ;)

It's also likely most Cimmerians were simply too poor to wear suits of mail. A bit of boiled leather, a helmet and a shield might be all they could afford.

Same thing with bows. The Cimmerians use them to hunt--not for war. Cowards draw death from a distance. The Cimmerian is in your face, breathing in your last breath when he kills you.

Well they might just not have had very good bows. A weak bow with general-purpose arrows could have trouble going through padded armour, let alone a good coat of scale or chain. Certainly Conan didn't learn archery until he'd left his native hills.

Correct. Wide shots of Conan's village in that film show the waterwheel.

Ta, I'd forgotten about that waterwheel. Now you mention it I remember noticing it when I saw the movie back when it came out. It just feels much too industrial for the Cimmerians.
 

Well, in the case of the movies the Cimmerian aren't ready when their village was raided.

They are in the beginning of the 2012 film when the Vanir raid them and Conan is "born on the battlefield".

The Cimmerians are the proto-Celts. Specifically, the Cimmerians are the proto-Irish and Scots (the Celtic cultural influence spread all over Europe and into what is today Turkey). And, like them, it's OK for women and children to use distance weapons and get armored up a bit.

Note in the beginning fight, Conan's mother is wearing armor (looks like brigadine with small armored plates) where Conan's father is wearing something less protective--like leather armor.

Among the Celts, as a man becomes a warrior, use of the bow for war or thick, heavy armor is frowned upon. It's not that you can't do it--it's that people will think you a pu^^y if you do. Beyond the throwing of a hand axe, real men are the ones who charge into battle with their great swords.





Anyhow, Cimmerians probably wouldn't have worn very heavy armour going by the little we know of them - they'd have had more trouble "swarming" over the walls of Venarium if they well in full coats of armour. Although for all we know they brought ladders. ;)

There is a book, sanctioned by Conan Properties, Inc. as "official", written by Harry Turtledove called Conan of Venarium that tells the story. I quite like the book. It's a subtle tale--not what you would expect from a Conan story.

Many Conan fans pan the book, though, because it is so different from what is expected (and because Turtledove disregarded any other pastiche to tell his tale, and therefore, his "facts" don't line up with regard to Conan's village and the people in it).





It's also likely most Cimmerians were simply too poor to wear suits of mail. A bit of boiled leather, a helmet and a shield might be all they could afford.

In the RPG, the Cimmerians are given the Heavy Armor Feat for free, so, at least from the game's prospective, they know enough about it to be comfortable. I've struggled with that since I don't see Cimmerians strutting around in plate. The game doesn't use standard D&D armor types. Light Armor is something like a leather or quilted jerkin or even a mail shirt. Medium Armor is a brigadine coat, scale corselet, mail hauberk, breastplate, and the like. Heavy armor is usually a combination of ligher stuff: Usually a mail hauberk combined with with something (like a breastplate or scale corselet). Heavy armor can also be plate armor.

Cimmerians don't seem to wear anything too much heavier than leather and brigadine. You don't see a lot of mail. Therefore, that keeps the (in game terms) Cimmerians in mostly light armor. Even Conan's mom in the beginning of the 2012 film is wearing, at best, Medium armor.

I've reasoned that the Cimmerians are used to fighting with many heavy leather layers--animal skins and such to keep them warm--thus, when they do don Heavy armor, it's not that much of a stretch.





Well they might just not have had very good bows.

This is part of it. In the game, I only allow the Cimmerians to use hunting bows, which do not allow STR bonuses for damage. Other cultures, like the Hyrkanians and the Stygians have mastered the bow, and thus, have composit bows and those that are set for particular STR ratings.



Ta, I'd forgotten about that waterwheel. Now you mention it I remember noticing it when I saw the movie back when it came out. It just feels much too industrial for the Cimmerians.

I agree. That was a pretty advanced smithy, especially in sight of the rest of the very primitive village.

In my game, though, it could exist--it just wouldn't be representative of all of Cimmeria. It would be that clan's strength.
 

They are in the beginning of the 2012 film when the Vanir raid them and Conan is "born on the battlefield".

Note in the beginning fight, Conan's mother is wearing armor (looks like brigadine with small armored plates) where Conan's father is wearing something less protective--like leather armor.

Are we cross-posting? I mentioned that in my last post.

Among the Celts, as a man becomes a warrior, use of the bow for war or thick, heavy armor is frowned upon. It's not that you can't do it--it's that people will think you a pu^^y if you do. Beyond the throwing of a hand axe, real men are the ones who charge into battle with their great swords.

Erm, if that's how you want your Cimmerian culture to roll that's fine by me, but the Celts of the La Tene period definitely wore metal armour - mail, helms, shields. They had a design of mail coat that was so good the Romans copied it. It was expensive though, so it was only wealthy areas (such as ancient Gaul) and/or elites who could afford it. Something only the elite/rich have almost always obtains a cachet rather than being "frowned upon".

As for throwing weapons, spears would seem far more likely than handaxes.

Oh, and the Cu Culain, the hero of Irish legend wore armour. If it was frowned upon as you claim such an idealized warrior as the Hound of Ulster wouldn't have it.

There is a book, sanctioned by Conan Properties, Inc. as "official", written by Harry Turtledove called Conan of Venarium that tells the story. I quite like the book. It's a subtle tale--not what you would expect from a Conan story.

Many Conan fans pan the book, though, because it is so different from what is expected (and because Turtledove disregarded any other pastiche to tell his tale, and therefore, his "facts" don't line up with regard to Conan's village and the people in it).

I'm increasingly viewing anything not penned by Howard as "entertaining apocrypha" in relation to Conan stories. It may be incorporated in a Conan-related game if I ever get around to running one, but it equally may not, and I'd be as likely to use something from a Savage Sword of Conan comic or even the cartoon as any of the books.

In the RPG, the Cimmerians are given the Heavy Armor Feat for free, so, at least from the game's prospective, they know enough about it to be comfortable. I've struggled with that since I don't see Cimmerians strutting around in plate. The game doesn't use standard D&D armor types. Light Armor is something like a leather or quilted jerkin or even a mail shirt. Medium Armor is a brigadine coat, scale corselet, mail hauberk, breastplate, and the like. Heavy armor is usually a combination of ligher stuff: Usually a mail hauberk combined with with something (like a breastplate or scale corselet). Heavy armor can also be plate armor.

I've reasoned that the Cimmerians are used to fighting with many heavy leather layers--animal skins and such to keep them warm--thus, when they do don Heavy armor, it's not that much of a stretch.

From what I remember of the Conan d20 rules the armour types aren't that different from D&D.

Well it seems less of a stretch to assume they have that armour proficiency because they sometimes wear armour of that weight. Methinks at least some of their warriors should use such armour, otherwise they wouldn't have the proficiency.

Cold Weather Clothing doesn't impose any mobility or armour check penalties in the d20 SRD - although it probably should. Under d20 RAW wouldn't be penalized unless they're wearing so much fur the weight gets them into Medium Encumbrance - which would require seven sets of Cold Weather Clothing! (Assuming an average Cimmerian has Strength 12 - they have a +2 racial bonus to Str if I remember the Conan RPG correctly).

This is part of it. In the game, I only allow the Cimmerians to use hunting bows, which do not allow STR bonuses for damage. Other cultures, like the Hyrkanians and the Stygians have mastered the bow, and thus, have composit bows and those that are set for particular STR ratings.

Yes, that'd do it. Especially in a game that uses armour-as-DR. A 1d6 arrow won't be of much use against a DR of 4+.
 

Are we cross-posting? I mentioned that in my last post.

No cross posting--just thinking alike. I wrote that in response above then saw your comment about the same as I moved down the post with my response.





Oh, and the Cu Culain, the hero of Irish legend wore armour. If it was frowned upon as you claim such an idealized warrior as the Hound of Ulster wouldn't have it.

The Celts were a vast reaching people, stretching the length of Europe and beyond. And, the culture was long-lived. The aspect I claim I read online somewhere. I have no reason to doubt it's true. And, that's how Cimmierians are typically portrayed. Remember, stuff about Cimmeria usually has to be made up to fit the scant little that Howard wrote about the place.





I'm increasingly viewing anything not penned by Howard as "entertaining apocrypha" in relation to Conan stories.

Sure. You sound like you're more of a Howard Purist than I am.


It may be incorporated in a Conan-related game if I ever get around to running one, but it equally may not, and I'd be as likely to use something from a Savage Sword of Conan comic or even the cartoon as any of the books.

Then again, this sounds like me, after all. I pick and choose to serve the atmosphere of my game.





From what I remember of the Conan d20 rules the armour types aren't that different from D&D.

I think they are. A mail shirt would be AC 5 (or AC +5, for AC 15, in 3.5) in D&D, while it's light armor in Conan. A breast plate is medium armor in Conan where in D&D, I think that's considered plate or half-plate, a heavy armor.





Well it seems less of a stretch to assume they have that armour proficiency because they sometimes wear armour of that weight. Methinks at least some of their warriors should use such armour, otherwise they wouldn't have the proficiency.

Even then, all warriors get the Heavy Armor Feat. And, I don't think heavy armor would be that available, even if a few warriors in the clan did pick up a piece or two off their enemies.





Cold Weather Clothing doesn't impose any mobility or armour check penalties in the d20 SRD - although it probably should. Under d20 RAW wouldn't be penalized unless they're wearing so much fur the weight gets them into Medium Encumbrance - which would require seven sets of Cold Weather Clothing!

True, but that's the best I could come up with without changing the rule and allowing the Barbarian class to be familiar with Light and Medium armors only.

I do like the optional piece-meal armor rules in one of the third party supplement books. It gives the Cimmerian a mechanical game reason to wear leather bracers and a small helm with his bear-skin kilt and sandals.



Yes, that'd do it. Especially in a game that uses armour-as-DR. A 1d6 arrow won't be of much use against a DR of 4+.

A Hunting Arrow in the Conan RPG does 1d8 damage, but your point is still true: Minimum armor of a Leather Jerkin is DR 4. Heck, leather bracers and a small helm is DR 2.
 

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