D&D 5E Anyone else think the Bard concept is just silly?

Cap'n Kobold said:

Interesting. How would you view a wizard whose verbal components were chants, as opposed a bard whose spells were cast the same way?

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Is the wizard toting a harp and waring tights? Because THAT is the issue . LOL
The Bard is Stereotyped in D&D. That's the truth. they have finally given some different archetypes but Bard Unfortunately is often synonymous with minstrel and troubadour. It Evokes Imagery because D&D has used said imagery for a VERY long time. That imagery is more often than not a dude in a feathered cap with tights singing everything like a jackass and wearing clashing colors.
I think that people have demonstrated in this thread that we can ignore that concept of course and the bard might be seen as much less silly. And I appreciate that, so thank all of you that explained. BUT...I have run into a dearth of players that cannot shake the bard concept as a wandering , tight wearing girl chasing jackass.
NOW I get this is a player problem at some point, but most players are just trying to mimic what they have seen for over 25 years in the D&D game.
THAT is what is silly. I think that most of us that do find it silly, basically only find that particular notion silly. I
do wonder though, If you change the persona of a "Bard" then is he really a "Bard"?
I personally think that if, as some of you are suggesting, the Musical element can easily be ignored and not really the Focal point of what a bard is, then why the hell is it called a BARD? That is the confusing part.
When People play a Wizard they generally play them and at least at some level, expect them to be fairly cliché. Not always, but often. Because they are called a WIZARD, and wizard evokes certain elements weather its robes, a staff and a pointy hat with a spellbook or not. That is the first image that generally pops into a persons mind when the word is uttered. We all see Gandalf the Grey.
I guarantee you that if someone says the Word BARD, It conjures the Image of a person with some type of instrument,. So saying that the Music doesn't have to be the focus of the bard , while technically true, is disingenuous.

LOL! What's the issue here? OMG LOL.
The point seems to LOL get lost in ROFL translation. LOL.


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Brandegoris said:

Is the wizard toting a harp and waring tights? Because THAT is the issue . LOL

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As per the quote, I was addressing Saelorn's assertation that it is because the bard gets their magic from music rather than books that makes them silly. I don't think that you, or many others have this particular issue with them.

[Note: These images are mine, fyi. So, no takey/usey without my say so. 'k?

Here's a bard. Let's say his lute/lyre/lap-harp is in his cabin.


Here's a couple of guys, either of whom who could easily be bards


Here's a, perhaps more "stereotypical" bard (on the left), as the ones you're talking about. As I recall, he was Chaotic Neutral and rather always getting himself -and the rest of us- into trouble. But, never did I think "That's a bard for ya." It was THAT PC. I would propose that the guy on the right of this image (who, IIRC, was actually a ranger) could easily be taken as a bard, just going by appearances.


Which is "silly" and why/what makes it so?

I personally don't find the concept of a musical bard silly at all. Forming magic from music is no more silly to me than speaking words and making gestures that have to be relearned every day with no long term consequences, exploiting an on demand connetion to your god, hugging a tree, having it just burst forth from you, or making a deal with INSERT_PATRON_HERE.

I view the fully musical bard as very similar to Lindsey Stirling.
Dragon Age - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuJnvC8voJY
Roundtable Rival - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvipPYFebWc

The bard could even be a dancer with certain appropriations using Magical Secrets to make a dancer like the LXD (although with less windup; LXD is more about the dancing than the fighting).
Reprogram - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M36Gy1VRXE&list=PLTXGCzZ9AAzPhEM_y-vudz1GbwsMhVL_0&index=27

steeldragons said:

[Note: These images are mine, fyi. So, no takey/usey without my say so. 'k?

Here's a bard. Let's say his lute/lyre/lap-harp is in his cabin.

Here's a couple of guys, either of whom who could easily be bards

Here's a, perhaps more "stereotypical" bard (on the left), as the ones you're talking about. As I recall, he was Chaotic Neutral and rather always getting himself -and the rest of us- into trouble. But, never did I think "That's a bard for ya." It was THAT PC. I would propose that the guy on the right of this image (who, IIRC, was actually a ranger) could easily be taken as a bard, just going by appearances.

Which is "silly" and why/what makes it so?

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The dude without his shirt on is clearly silly... yet...Oddly Appealing

I have a new player joining My game on Friday. You will all be happy to know I have encouraged him to make a Bard and we will work together and take some suggestions I have learned in this thread.

cmad1977 said:

LOL! What's the issue here? OMG LOL.
The point seems to LOL get lost in ROFL translation. LOL.


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I like your writing style.....

I quite like the bard concept (Fflewder Fflan ffan) but I dislike the musical instrument mechanic. As I understand it they don't need to be playing the instrument, just holding it, which seems weird. If they gain their magic power from manipulating music, holding the flute is meaningless. Playing it, sure. You make magic notes that bend reality. But holding it makes no sense in that fluff. It may as well be a component pouch.
I like the idea of bardic magic being able to be sung into existence (thus providing the option of the warrior bard "singing a song of red death as he hacked his way through the ranks of the undead", and at the same time giving the player the chance to fit pop songs into suitable lyrics - which I always enjoy, at least).
But that said, from PHB:
5/11 cantrips are V or VS only
10/21 level 1 spells are V or VS only
So there is that ability as written, and if a player were to say that their bard was a magical singer then I'd be inclined to forego M components unless they have a value in gp rather than insist on holding onto the neck of a ukulele. I mean if you wanted to ensure they had a hand busy it could be that they are doing that thing that singers do where they touch their ear on the high notes?
As an aside where you have V S bard spells like thunderwave I mean, it's got to be a bill and ted air guitar riff for the S part, right?
...
Um
I had a point somewhere in there.


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Aldarc said:

I have gone back and read your first post, which I will not bother quoting for the sake of space, but I still don't find it particularly convincing. In fifth edition, words of power (and music, by extension) is a source of magical power, but it is not the source of magical power. The approach that 5e takes is that there are multiple paths, philosophies, and flavors to magic (or the Weave). Sure the bard may have been "part wizard" in 2E, but that was also in the days before other arcanists, such as the sorcerer and warlock. Since then, the wizard's monopoly on arcane magic has been (thankfully) destroyed.

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And if you go back to my previous statements, you'll see that I find all other sources of magical power to be unnecessary. We don't need clerics, or warlocks, or druids. You can have a perfectly functional fantasy setting where wizardry is the only magic available, just like you can have a perfectly functional fantasy setting with only cleric magic, or only bard magic.

Just pick something and run with it, because a setting where everything works is unnecessarily complex. For the sake of compromise, I'm willing to accept two sources of magical power, to give the setting some contrast and versatility. Warlocks and druids are strictly redundant once you have clerics, though; no setting needs, or benefits from, two different mechanical ways to get powers out of evil demon gods or fey.

Ratskinner said:

Bards...Music...

Well this, IMO, is one of those places where old-timey D&D's "kitchen-sink" approach has lead us down an odd path. But, honestly, is the guy singing and rocking his life during the skirmish any weirder or less sensible than his teammate in the dress and pointy hat waving a stick around? I can't see how.

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Just wanted to point out that if you look in the PHB and DMG, you actually won't find many pointy hat Wizards waving sticks around. If you do, it'll be a rarity. But every Bard is smiling/smirking and all but one is carrying an instrument, and every single actual instrument is a lute/guitar.

I'm pretty sure the folks at D&D know exactly which stereotypes they are and aren't playing into.