D&D 5E Anyone else think the Bard concept is just silly?

[Brandegoris]

I don't ever recall really complaining about the Bard using Charisma for its casting stat. Just pointing out that the idea that the Bard uses MUSIC for his casting of spells was introduced in 3e when the class became a Charisma caster.

And I feel that the implication that, "It's been this way for a while, so we're stuck with it forever" to be an appeal to tradition.

With d8, light armor, limited weapons options, a larger and more varied skill list, expertise, the ability to heal, a modified spell with a more limited number of spells known, more of a support role, sub-classes not based on the 8 schools of magic, and some other changes. Sure.

I believe I've been very clear in multiple posts about what I want.[/QUOTE]

I think you have been very concise about what you think , are suggesting and want. Unfortunately I think some folks are being willfully obtuse in their replies to you.

 

[Alexemplar]

Funny, I am thinking of dumping Wis as a stat, and making Wis classes based on Charisma. Perception would become a flat number like AC, and all the wis skills I can currently think of fit fine under intelligence*. Like medicine, the textbook "This was learned" skill.

EDIT:*Or charisma, like Insight.

I've always liked Wisdom with magic as I consider it more a matter of understanding mysteries than simple book learning. Some spellcasters may lean more towards Intelligence or Charisma in other aspects, but their supernatural prowess comes from profound understanding that cannot simply be read in a book, expressed via a collection of facts, or concluded from logical deduction.

 

[Tony Vargas]

And I feel that the implication that, "It's been this way for a while, so we're stuck with it forever" to be an appeal to tradition.

I respect that feeling, but 5e does intentionally try to appeal to D&D traditionalists, and that appeal to tradition, traditionally, has been a big part of D&D's traditional appeal.

Also D&D is doing pretty well, atm, so clearly all that appeal to tradition is popular, so we could appeal to that popular appeal, too, even if would be an appeal to popularity...

But yes, There IS something silly about the bard concept.

... But then WHY is he called a F*cki*g bard?

It's not, it just called either a Lore Bard or a Valor Bard. You'll have to wait for a certain sort of 3pp supplement before you'll get a College like the one you allude to.

Also, as it /is/ called a bard...

...then, the things bards do could be said to be 'barding.' I mean, we have the fighter, and what it does isn't just called 'fighting,' it's supposed to be best at fighting, so clearly the bard should be best at barding...
Which begs the question...
... can bards wear barding?
No? ...what if the bard is prancing along, making clip-clop noises with a pair of coconut shells?
...No? But if a bard can't wear barding, then how could a bard go out barding without barding, at all? And, if a bard were barding, would he ride a mount, or would the mount wear him? Since a mount wearing barding has a higher AC, that would fit the 5e bard's support function, as he's handing out an AC buff by riding the mount while barding, or as barding, functionally, either way.

And there's nothing silly about having a better AC, now is there?

So bards aren't silly.

Arguing about bards on line, though, that can get pretty silly.

 

[Brandegoris]

I respect that feeling, but 5e does intentionally try to appeal to D&D traditionalists, and that appeal to tradition, traditionally, has been a big part of D&D's traditional appeal.

Also D&D is doing pretty well, atm, so clearly all that appeal to tradition is popular, so we could appeal to that popular appeal, too, even if would be an appeal to popularity...

It's not, it just called either a Lore Bard or a Valor Bard. You'll have to wait for a certain sort of 3pp supplement before you'll get a College like the one you allude to.

Also, as it /is/ called a bard...

...then, the things bards do could be said to be 'barding.' I mean, we have the fighter, and what it does isn't just called 'fighting,' it's supposed to be best at fighting, so clearly the bard should be best at barding...
Which begs the question...
... can bards wear barding?
No? ...what if the bard is prancing along, making clip-clop noises with a pair of coconut shells?
...No? But if a bard can't wear barding, then how could a bard go out barding without barding, at all? And, if a bard were barding, would he ride a mount, or would the mount wear him? Since a mount wearing barding has a higher AC, that would fit the 5e bard's support function, as he's handing out an AC buff by riding the mount while barding, or as barding, functionally, either way.

And there's nothing silly about having a better AC, now is there?

So bards aren't silly.

Arguing about bards on line, though, that can get pretty silly.

Now YOU are just being Silly

 

[Tony Vargas]

Now YOU are just being Silly

You found me out!

BUT, the thing is, I'm not a bard...

 

[Brandegoris]

You found me out!

BUT, the thing is, I'm not a bard...

Or...ARE you.......

 

[Tony Vargas]

Or...ARE you.......

If I am, I disprove the musical connection - I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket.

 

[Brandegoris]

If I am, I disprove the musical connection - I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket.

But you are poetic? and maybe a little like a jester? hmmmmm

 

[Aldarc]

A wizard is already a wizard. All wizards are loremasters. You learn magic from reading books. That's the definition of wizard in D&D.

I don't mind bards also being loremasters, who picked up their lore through travel rather than by studying in a tower.

What's stopping you? The fact that they can sing? Really?

 

[The Crimson Binome]

What's stopping you? The fact that they can sing? Really?

I can't choose how I want to interpret data. What is stopping me is the design intent. The thing in the book is not supposed to be a loremaster in the same way that a wizard is. It's disingenuous to pretend that the bard is casting spells that it learned from books, as a wizard would. If bard magic was the same as wizard magic, then they would own a spellbook and their spells would be powered by Intelligence.