D&D 5E Lets talk about getting rid of "recover all spell slots on a long rest"

Prakriti said:

The thing is, most groups don't even track time, so players go from "We take a long rest" to "We take a long rest, plus however much time it takes to recover our spell slots." And most DMs will just shrug and say, "Okay." In the end, nothing changes.

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tetrasodium said:

going out being socially involved at a tavern spa or whatever would help recover the caster's lost energy magical stamina or whatever but sitting in a library studying performing religious ceremonies or whatever is mentally taxing in ways that slow that process.

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Prakriti said:

This is similar to the system I'm currently mulling, except mine is less granular. I got the idea from Adventures in Middle Earth, which doesn't allow long rests outside of sanctuaries (i.e. towns). Basically, the party can take a long rest anywhere, but they don't recover HP or HD unless they rest in a sanctuary (either a town or a campsite outside a dungeon).

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Umbran said:

I am not sure why playing with spell recovery is preferable to adjusting encounter difficulty.

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MichaelSomething said:

I thought the point of reducing spell slot recovery was to make it easier for the DM to challenge/enforce attrition on the players?

5E PCs have so much recovery available DMs are unable to wear them down using fictionally plausible battles. Of course, if you don't mind a PC party encountering around two hundred monsters a week, it's not an issue for you; but it is for a lot of DMs.

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TwoSix said:

I'll just repost what I posted in the other thread.
Honestly, I think most of the tools already exist in the 5e framework; you simply need to dump neo-Vancian casting to achieve this (which is probably a bridge too far in traditional D&D).

1) Make deployable offensive and defensive resources a shallow pool, but charge more quickly. The warlock is our model here, or the fighter or monk. Short rest resources primarily, or once per encounter. (Regain 1 dice on initiative is per-encounter in all but name, and a concept like "regain focus" or "take a breather" taking 1 minute can easily be put into the system and fulfills both simulationist and gamist agendas.)

Ideally, the goal here is what you bring into a fight on offense is roughly the same in any fight, although a chain of quick fights can become difficult quickly.

2) Long-rest resources are used for restoration and repair, or for non-combat utility. Leveraging the ritual system is particularly useful, and could use expansion.

3) Short rests keep the PCs in fighting shape, but cause weariness (Spend Hit Dice to regain hit points). Long rests alleviate weariness (Restore Hit Die). Out-of-combat healing magic should be tightly constrained to reinforce this loop.

4) Deeper attrition is handled by consumables. Going into a dungeon where you might not be able to long rest requires preparation in the form of healing potions and utility scrolls. Access to this function is constrained either by tight financial constraints for a simulationist agenda (potions cost money and special reagents, the best source of money and reagents is found in the more dangerous places) or by metagame currency for a gamist agenda (replace money with a metagame currency like XP).

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Minigiant said:

My game uses Location resting. You can steal what you want.

You get your HD, health,class features, and spell slot backs based on comfort level of the area. Rests at different comfort levels take different of time to short or long rest.

Level 0 areas are impossible to rest in. These are usually planes or places where the environment is too hostile or unstable to rest in. Think a desert under the sun, a ship during a storm, a plane of ice under frigid temperatures, or near a battlefield.

• No Short Rest
• No Long Rest

Level 1 areas are places where you can rest but not drop your guard. There are possible hostiles around and no soft spots to rest on. You can short rest here in a hour but cannot long rest.

• Short Rest Allowed
  • Healer's kit dependent
  • Cannot spend more hit die than Con modifier per hour (minimum 1)
• No Long Rest

Level 2 areas are places where you can rest but not comfortably. There's no beds. There's no table and candlelight to read books. Food and drink are rationed and poor quality. There is some sort of exposure or a need for a guard. You can short rest and long rest.

• Short Rest Allowed
  • Healer's kit dependent
• Long Rest Allowed
  • Healer's kit dependent
  • Slower Natural Healing
  • Daily Spell slots gained gain in slot levels equal to total spellcasting level.

Level 3 areas are places with proper amenities above a poor level. Beds, tables, quiet, food, and drink of moderate quality is available.

• Short Rest Allowed
• Long Rest Allowed
  • Healer's kit dependent

Level 4 areas are beyond the normal. Physical characters have access to the finest care and medicine. Arcanists have access to magical libraries or laboratories. Divine characters have access to a church of an aligned deity or a sacred natural space.

• Short Rest Allowed
  • Short Rest in 10 minutes
• Long Rest Allowed
  • Gain all hit die
  • Advantage in one skill or tool ability check for next 24 hours
  • Extra Attack grants another attack within next 24 hrs if you long rest 3 days in a row.
  • Can cast one spell of level equal to a third your spellcasting level for free within next 24 hrs if you long rest 7 days in a row.

Level 5 areas your specially made headquarters. You must pay 100 gp per cumulative level to stock the area with books, training equipment, sacred items, and other items and rituals personal to you and your skills.

• Short Rest Allowed
  • Short Rest in 10 minutes
• Long Rest Allowed
  • Gain all hit die
  • Advantage in one skill or tool ability check for next 24 hours
  • Extra Attack grants another attack within next 24 hrs if you long rest 3 days in a row.
  • Can cast one spell of level equal to a third your spellcasting level for free within next 24 hrs if you long rest 7 days in a row.

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Umbran said:

That's relevant when they are in a space where getting rest is exceedingly difficult, perhaps But most of the time, my experience says this will just mean the party rests for longer, which is not interesting.

Now, if simply having greater space to say, "you are occasionally are pressed for time, and must choose which spells you will have" is what you are after, then fine. But players, in my experience, will go to significant lengths to just make it "take a longer rest".

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tetrasodium said:

I kinda like this & think it would solve some problems, but a lot of it would boil down to going back to town to rest for however long all the time. All in all I'm starting to think that the reason the dmg options for these dials are so terrible just comes down to too many oversimplified systems & the all too frequent "5e is so easy to make changes to.. unless you want to change that."

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tetrasodium said:

going out being socially involved at a tavern spa or whatever would help recover the caster's lost energy magical stamina or whatever but sitting in a library studying performing religious ceremonies or whatever is mentally taxing in ways that slow that process.

Yea most parties don't track time, but they certainly track things like needing to spend an amount of gold doing something

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