DM PCs

AngryTiger said:

I only have 1 player, so i've used multiple DMPC's on literally every single campaign i've run, and i have had only positive experiences with using them. My player loves interacting with the characters. While i could tailor encounters for single character instead, i prefer having a full adventuring party, the DMPC's exist more for interaction with the player than just combat hencmen. I couldn't imagine running games without DMPC's, my player would riot if i stopped using them.

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Yeah, very small groups are usually why I have NPC companions. Sometimes they become DMPCs, sometimes not. Currently, I've 2 NPC companions running around with my islands campaign, which has two players. Both players are playing orc/elf totem barbarians (elk and bear, respectively) who are "himbos". Occasionally there are guest PCs, and Orobo and Diego take a back seat or sometimes split the party into two groups. They're also helpful if when we have someone show up late or not at all in the midst of a multi-session arc with guest PCs. That PC is off looking into something with Diego or tracking something down with Orobo.

Diego is a Shadar-kai Rogue/Paladin, and is also a patron of sorts for the group, having hired them to help him get into a sealed and trapped vault under the city to get an ancient artifact before the evil Colonel Montez can get it and use it to end the indipendence of the provence of Parancia and force it's people to bow to his Witch Queen.

Orobo is a grung ranger, and an old friend of the parents of the two main PCs, their "uncle" by virtue of those friendships, and habitually, and lovingly, laments being stuck accompanying two such malformed and unfortunate layabouts. He's 2ft tall and talks like a barrel chested slavic man, but with drawn out vowels and frequent rolling soft consonants. He's also a poisoner and alchemist, making him a great support dude.

Blue said:

Completely understandable, but it was sort of the other way - they were thinking of raising him because they saw him as a PC, were ignoring another NPC death from the same combat, and it would have wiped out the party's liquid wealth such that they wouldn't be able to raise anyone else. It was someone they held dear though, as you said.

Sorry, my fault if I didn't convey the rest of the context that this was rather unusual for them.

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Ah, okay, that makes more sense.

To be fair, I come from a group wherein an entire Star Wars campaign change course, dramatically, after we almost got a young man killed on a mission stealing goods from the Empire, and my character had to deal with the guilt of leading people into battle when he didn't actually want anything to do with leadership, and almost fell to the dark side when he went looking for drink and a fight that night. I spent a Destiny point and risked exposure as a "Jedi" to save the kid.

I love characters like that, because it helps the player characters to have deep connections and bonds outside of the other PCs, which I consider vital to the kind of game I want to run and be in. Obviously it's not the only way to do it, but if you watch Critical Role, their love of characters like Gilmore and Kima is a big part of what makes their game so engaging, IMO. If it was just the moments between PCs, I don't think I'd care as much about the show, if that makes sense.

Obviously, different groups and individuals will feel differently, and that's fine.

I think I missed something. To me a DMPC is a character run by the DM that accompanies the party, has full stats, gets XP with the party, participates in combat the same way PCs do, and so on...if that is a DMPC then my original answer stands, I hate them!

If by DMPC it's actually meant an NPC that just doesn't get dead or gone right away and doesn't get XP or participate in combat other than window dressing, then that's just an NPC. Can't have a game without NPCs.

zarionofarabel said:

I think I missed something. To me a DMPC is a character run by the DM that accompanies the party, has full stats, gets XP with the party, participates in combat the same way PCs do, and so on...if that is a DMPC then my original answer stands, I hate them!

If by DMPC it's actually meant an NPC that just doesn't get dead or gone right away and doesn't get XP or participate in combat other than window dressing, then that's just an NPC. Can't have a game without NPCs.

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I tend to keep my DMPCs from taking the spotlight in a fight, but they do fight. Often, I will have them fighting essentially a second fight, but if things start turning too far against the PCs, the DMPC wraps up their own fight and joins the main fight. Other times, the fight is gonna be hard enough from the start that the team needs all hands on deck.

They do have full PC stats (because my mastery of 5e is enough that this doesn't slow me down in play), and they level with the party, sometimes gaining cool new toys between sessions.

Well I messed that up so here's a picture of my bird in the sink...delete it if you can or however this crap works. I'm a bloody luddite.

zarionofarabel said:

Well I messed that up so here's a picture of my bird in the sink...delete it if you can or however this crap works. I'm a bloody luddite.

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That’s a good bird.

Works for me.

A lot of the discussion on DMPCs is about combat/noncombat, XP, stats, etc. I don't think any of those things are really the dividing line between NPC/DMPC.

To me it comes down to three things:

1. Decision making
2. Agency
3. Spotlight

PCs always have a voice in decision making. NPCs don't. If an NPC is speaking up for party decision making on a regular basis, that's a DMPC.

PCs have agency. They are (hopefully) proactive. They plan ahead. If an NPC is consistently, then the agency displayed by that NPC makes them a DMPC.

PCs can all expect to have opportunities to be in the spotlight. Side quests, backstories, or even just opportunities where their specific character abilities are front and center for the success of the party. If there in-game situations being run around an NPC, that's a DMPC.

As both a DM and a player I strongly dislike DMPCs. I don't begrudge other people for using them, but here are the reasons they take away from my experience:

As a DM:

• My concentration is already split between all the other roles of a DM, from Monster Stat Blocks to remembering important narrative history, and I don't also want to be running a DMPC.
• Any time I take to roll or describe what the DMPC is doing in combat takes time away from both the PCs and my monsters / combatants.
• I find that players often try to milk DMPCs for information rather than going out and collecting it themselves.
• I try to hand a lot of control over to the players ("George, why is the statue significant to your character?" rather than describing the statue myself), and the idea of either giving some of that descriptive power to the DMPC or ignoring them makes my brain steam.
• It can lead to NPC-NPC dialogue while the players sit around as an audience, which is a personal bugaboo of mine.

As a player:

• DMPCs are rarely as dynamic and interesting as PCs, because they are part of the world instead of reacting to it.
• I dislike the metagame aspect of having a DMPC when we are problem solving. "Should we just ask the DMPC to solve this? No, that wouldn't be fun... but it would make sense?"
• Storylines involving the DMPC are difficult for me to buy into.
• They are often forgotten until their moment in the campaign story comes up.

Now I will admit that other players at my table actively like DMPCs! So I know my opinion is not universal. Maybe my perspective is colored by being a teacher; I would never have a "teacher student" working in a small group!