D&D 5E XGE rules on using thieves tool proficiency for finding traps

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auburn2

Adventurer

• Jan 3, 2021

• #1

In the section on thieves tools XGE states: "Investigation and Perception. You gain additional insight when looking for traps, because you have learned a variety of common signs that betray their presence."

What does "additional insight" mean? Is this advantage? Is it a proficiency bonus?

If it is a proficiency bonus does this stack if you already have proficiency in investigation or perception? How about if you have expertise in any of these? Conceivably this could be proficiency times 4 if you have expertise both in the skill and in thieves tools

 

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Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)

• Jan 3, 2021

• #2

I'd say you can either make a tool check or an investigation check (we rarely use perception for a trap unless it's an unusual trap). I can see giving advantage or a plus two bonus to investigate while with proficiency in thieves tools too.

 

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin

• Jan 3, 2021

• #3

I wouldn't allow the proficiencies to stack, but advantage would apply. You making an Investigation (or Perception) check and using Thieves' Tools at the same time.

 

Benjamin Olson

Hero

• Jan 3, 2021

• #4

I would allow it to mean that they search for traps with proficiency even if they aren't proficient in perception or investigation, or if they are a Rogue proficient in those skills but with expertise in thieves tools I'd let them use the higher proficiency. I wouldn't stack proficiencies. I agree with the above readings that WotC seems to be giving the go ahead for advantage here, but I think that makes advantaged rolls too common for something that is as standard a part of dungeoneering as all searches for traps (though if it were a mundane trap on a lock then thieves tool proficiency seems more reasonable). I would just end up making the DCs higher.

I love finding creative reasons to give people advantage or proficiency for a check, but nobody should get advantage on something as typical as all checks for traps. That doesn't feel special or interesting, and at that point DCs within a fun range for everyone else become trivial for the trapfinder character and you might as well just tell Mr. Rogue that he sees traps when he enters the room.

 

Last edited: Jan 3, 2021

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)

• Jan 3, 2021

• #5

If the player describes an action with the goal being to determine if a trap is present, and their approach has a chance of succeeding at that goal, a chance of failing at it, and a cost for trying or consequence for failing, then I would call for an ability check (probably Wisdom, though in some cases Intelligence might be more appropriate), then the player is free to add their proficiency bonus for thieves’ tools to the check if they think their training with said tools would help them succeed in this situation. Of course, if they have expertise with thieves tools, they can add double their proficiency bonus if it’s applicable. You can’t apply your bonus for multiple proficiencies to the same roll though.

 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith

• Jan 3, 2021

• #6

Advantage applying as a result of additional insight makes sense here according to the rules in my view and may help address a longtime issue with the rogue often being the one good at disabling the traps, but not as good as the cleric at finding them (Wisdom (Perception)) or the wizard at figuring them out (Intelligence (Investigation)). The rogue thus becomes the guy or gal who deals with traps from finding, to figuring out, to disabling it instead of it being a team effort. You'll have to decide if this works for your group before adopting these rules.

 

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UngeheuerLich

Legend

• Jan 3, 2021

• #7

It is a good rule to give advantage. That means the rogue finally is better than the cleric in perception.

 

SkidAce

Legend

Supporter

• Jan 4, 2021

• #8

Sounds like its just meant to be an "additional benefit" as outlined in the picture above, not an advantage or proficiency situation.

 

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Flamestrike

Legend

• Jan 4, 2021

• #9

UngeheuerLich said:

It is a good rule to give advantage. That means the rogue finally is better than the cleric in perception.

Click to expand...

Seeing as every Rogue ive ever seen played has Expertise in Perception, that shouldnt be too hard.

 

Mannahnin

Scion of Murgen (He/Him)

• Jan 4, 2021

• #10

6ENow! said:

View attachment 130862
I wouldn't allow the proficiencies to stack, but advantage would apply. You making an Investigation (or Perception) check and using Thieves' Tools at the same time.

Click to expand...

Thanks for showing us the text the OP was missing!

So here are a couple of suggested options for what "additional insight" can mean.