D&D 5E Storm King's Thunder is someone's Demonweb Pits

TerraDave · Feb 26, 2021

Stormonu said:
I was posting about old bad modules as a response to the comment about Dragonheist, mostly. Some people hold “Classic” modules on a pedestal as if they didn’t have issues at all. There are certainly great memories and experiences to be had, but I think a lot of the newer adventures are actually better than most of the originals.

It is fun to compare them, at least and see what 40 years of change has wrought upon the game

So many modules have been written for D&D, far more then I think most people realise. Even back in the day, it was really only in the late 70s that you just had those (in)famous classics, most people came into the game after that. Maybe long after that. There were other modules.

Most official modules, and there have been hundreds of them, are forgotten for good reason. A few, Red Hand of Doom, Forge of Fury...have been able to also become classics. In any case I have been very pleased with the conversions I have run for 5e.

Reynard · Feb 26, 2021

Umbran said:
I don't at all think he was saying that they were having the older-gamer's experience. He was saying, that these have the same position in their experience, as the older modules do for older players. Saying they are analogous is not suggesting they are exactly the same experience.

This precisely. The new generation will exalt these 5E modules as defining D&D in the same way that older players position "the classics" in their experience. That isn't to say the experience will be monolithic among those fans,bit it will be shared, which I think is the more important part.

One thing I think will color the views of those who come in by way of these modern modules is how they are singular stories. Just based on the changes in language, I don't think newer players think of a campaign as an ongoing thing that lasts years and encompasses many plots. Campaign has kind of become synonymous with "adventure" based on the way many Reddit gamers use the term.

Aside: I think they should remake Red Hand of Doom for 5E.

clearstream · Feb 26, 2021

Reynard said:
By that I mean: there is a whole generation of gamers for whom the WotC hardcover adventures (plus the STarter Box etc) are going to be the classic, gold standard adventures. Their history and therefore their future in the hobby is going to be defined by Lost Mines instead of Keep on teh Borderlands, or whatever.

I'm not saying it is a bad thing. It just suddenly occurred to me that the defining qualities of the WotC adventures are going to be fundamentally D&D to a whole new generation. As someone who came in via Metzner and never really played the modules of "my time" or the original modules, I find that strange and interesting.

Tomb of Annihilation will be their Tomb of Horrors.

Reynard · Feb 26, 2021

clearstream said:
Tomb of Annihilation will be their Tomb of Horrors.

Except ToA is a whole campaign with a big story. ToH was a goofy one shot tournament module never inded to be a serious part of your campaign.

Emerikol · Feb 26, 2021

Stormonu said:
This is going to sound heretical, but a lot of those old modules are actually pretty badly designed, and only have gained a “classic” standing because they were the only things available at the time. There’s actually very few that were more than sources of inspiration or a place to pull a set-piece encounter from. (For example, Ghost Tower of Inverness has almost nothing redeemable or noteworthy for use).

I of course would not agree across the board but I also realize that a matter of taste cannot be disputed.

Emerikol · Feb 26, 2021

Lakesidefantasy said:
Okay, this is a good thread for me to relate one of my favorite finds.

I shop at a lot for old Dungeons and Dragons stuff at Half Price Books, and one day I made the purchase of a lifetime there. I bought a 2nd edition boxed set of Undermountain, but when I got it home inside was not anything about Undermountain. Instead there were six modules--the G-series, the D-series, and Q1... The Demonweb Pits! All originals! And what did it cost me?--$5!!!

Somebody didn't do their homework. Each one is worth $20-$30.

Anyway I've always wanted to tell that story.

I own the Ruins of Undermountain boxed set. I also own the GDQ series. The D series is perhaps my favorite.

Umbran · Feb 26, 2021

Reynard said:
One thing I think will color the views of those who come in by way of these modern modules is how they are singular stories. Just based on the changes in language, I don't think newer players think of a campaign as an ongoing thing that lasts years and encompasses many plots.

Well, that hasn't been the general expectation for over 20 years.

We can look back to the market research WotC did in 1999. They found that the average/typical campaign ran for 12 to 18 months, and very few gamers experienced campaigns that ran much longer (we were told the distribution dropped off very quickly beyond 18 months). The game and adventure designs for 3e and beyond were in part based on this fact that was already established in the gaming community.

Reynard · Feb 26, 2021

Umbran said:
Well, that hasn't been the general expectation for over 20 years.

We can look back to the market research WotC did in 1999. They found that the average/typical campaign ran for 12 to 18 months, and very few gamers experienced campaigns that ran much longer (we were told the distribution dropped off very quickly beyond 18 months). The game and adventure designs for 3e and beyond were in part based on this fact that was already established in the gaming community.

I think maybe less that 20 years. When did the first successful adventure path appear? 2005? 2006?

But anyway, that was still largely a transition for existing and returning players. This new player base is mostly brand new to the game. They aren't unlearning things.

amethal · Feb 26, 2021

Stormonu said:
Oh, sorry - my mistake. I remember running it with my group using Pathfinder rules. I somehow missed it was actually a 3.5 adventure.

Also, while I said Age of Wyrms earlier, I actually meant Shackled City. Though from what I've heard, both were well-liked and had lots of play.

Unless you ran the single volume anniversary edition of Rise of the Runelords? That version was for Pathfinder; the original 6 book version is 3.5.

How did grappling work? Did you read the CMB off the Pathfinder stat blocks, or did you ask everyone to amuse themselves for five minutes while you calculated it manually from the 3.5 stat block?

amethal · Feb 26, 2021

CrashFiend82 said:
I remember running Sunless Citadel many times as the starter 3e adventure. The two things that jumped out were being able to quickly get in over your head (having to run away) and choices to use diplomacy to set up a fight between the goblins and kobolds, plus Meepo was a great npc. A kobold the players often grew to love. The only other module I've heard great things about from 3e was Red Hand of Doom, did that come from Dungeon?

I've played through it once, and run it once. It worked really well as a starter adventure, from either side of the screen.

I also like Bruce Cordell's 2nd edition adventures, although the only one I've actually run is Shattered Circle (converted to Pathfinder).

EDIT yet 4th Marauders of the Dune Sea is probably the adventure I like least in the entire history of D&D. I can only assume that it was written as a Forgotten Realms adventure and then hastily converted to Dark Sun. It's okay as an adventure, but as a Dark Sun adventure it is unbelievably bad. I normally laugh at overinvested fans who take gaming products they don't like as if it were an insult directed at themselves personally. However, Marauders of the Dune Sea has a stream in it, without explanation. Someone put a stream in a Dark Sun adventure. (For those not familiar with Dark Sun, it's the equivalent of writing an introductory Forgotten Realms adventure where all the Drow NPCs were cheerful, gregarious and wore ribbons in their hair.)

D&D 5E Storm King's Thunder is someone's Demonweb Pits

TerraDave

5ever, or until 2024

Reynard

Legend

clearstream

(He, Him)

Reynard

Legend

Emerikol

Adventurer

Emerikol

Adventurer

Umbran

Mod Squad

Reynard

Legend

amethal

Hero

amethal

Hero

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