D&D 5E Santuary and "deals damage to another creature"

Crimson Terrain · Mar 17, 2022

Yea I would say yes to all of those situations. Basically, if you are responsible for the damage in any way I would rule it as such. Honestly, a lot of that would also be answered more clearly by this bit "casts a spell that affects an enemy creature" anyway.

el-remmen · Mar 17, 2022

I used to see it used a lot back in 2E, less in 3E and not yet in 5E (but not sure any of the players in groups have access to it).

cbwjm · Mar 17, 2022

TerraDave said:
Its never been a great spell. Across editions, I think I have seen it used in play maybe twice.

I've seen it in play and it has saved lives, it's great for warding the squishier or weakened allies.

As to the OP's question, I tend to think that it's hostile actions resulting in harm to others, doesn't matter how you go about it, if you caused that damage then it breaks the spell.

TerraDave · Mar 17, 2022

So you made me look.

In 1e the spell only affected the cleric...by 3e you could cast it on someone else. I remember having a two cleric party (through the leadership feat) in 3e, so sometimes it would be used, and 1 could cast it on the other.

But it was really intended for the cleric or someone very much like a cleric to cast non-combat spells while protected. This is not bad, but still conditional. So conditional that its not surprising if it is was not used much.

Flamestrike · Mar 17, 2022

Davies said:
Yes.

Irlo said:
Yes.

Blue said:
Yes.

Iry said:
Yes.

overgeeked said:
Yes.

humble minion · Mar 17, 2022

To play devil's advocate though - surely there's a time limit of some sort?

I mean, if i dropped caltrops in a dungeon 8 levels ago and 200 miles away, and then when I've got Sanctuary up and running in some completely unrelated encounter, a random wandering goblin comes along and stands on a caltrop - does my Sanctuary expire?

Or there's Glyph of Warding. I'm sure that if i have a pre-prepared Glyph engraved on a rock or something, and while under a Sanctuary I deliberately take the rock out of my pocket and show it to an enemy, and the glyph triggers - that'd certainly cancel Sanctuary. But if I'm resting in a dungeon, having cast Glyph on the door to the room I'm sleeping in, and 6 hours into my long rest the sound of footsteps outside wakes me up and i cast Sanctuary - and then the critter outside triggers the Glyph - what about then? What if i cast a Glyph on the outside of a mask and then put the mask on and cast Sanctuary on myself and wander around until i meet a bad guy, and then the Glyph goes off - what about then?

And of course by the strictest letter of the rules Sanctuary won't expire if i cast a non-instantaneous spell BEFORE I was under the Sanctuary, that then goes on to affect an enemy creature in a non-damaging way. So i could cast Eyebite, then an ally could cast Sanctuary on me, and then I could walk around under the Sanctuary's protection Eyebiting people at will and the Sanctuary would be unaffected. And it won't expire at all if i perform a non-spell action that affects another creature in a non-damaging manner, so long as i don't make an attack in the process. Turning Undead, for example, or an Enchanter wizard's Hypnotic Gaze ability.

Mind you, the intent of the rule is pretty clear, and if you try any of these dodgy exploits you deserve every bit of what your DM is going to do to your PC...

Unwise · Mar 17, 2022

I can think of three game sessions where where Sanctuary saved the day
1. The thief who needed to sneak in and rescue the captured militia had it cast on him by the Trickery Cleric. He snuck in, then when he was sprung, he just ran to the prison door and stood their picking the lock as the guards wondered why they could not hit him. He later bonus action dashed and stood in a doorway and the guards found they could not hit him to get out of the way.
2. The half-orc went down to 1hp while surrounded by enemies. Rather than heal him, the Cleric cast sanctuary which let him run away to the backlines.
3. The cleric cast Daylight into a magical lantern that turned it into true daylight. He cast sanctuary on himself and walked into the vampire crypt. The vamps could not do much about it as they turned to dust. GM said he was not attacking them or causing them damage, their innate weakness was doing so, daylight does not hurt an ordinary person.

Lyxen · Mar 17, 2022

Unwise said:
I can think of three game sessions where where Sanctuary saved the day
1. The thief who needed to sneak in and rescue the captured militia had it cast on him by the Trickery Cleric. He snuck in, then when he was sprung, he just ran to the prison door and stood their picking the lock as the guards wondered why they could not hit him. He later bonus action dashed and stood in a doorway and the guards found they could not hit him to get out of the way.
2. The half-orc went down to 1hp while surrounded by enemies. Rather than heal him, the Cleric cast sanctuary which let him run away to the backlines.
3. The cleric cast Daylight into a magical lantern that turned it into true daylight. He cast sanctuary on himself and walked into the vampire crypt. The vamps could not do much about it as they turned to dust. GM said he was not attacking them or causing them damage, their innate weakness was doing so, daylight does not hurt an ordinary person.

These are nice examples, for me the main problem about sanctuary is that there is a save for each attack. So honestly, with guards around, there should have been one or two managing to hit, round after round. Same with the half-orc, depending how many were surrounding him.

Also, you have to be careful, your DM is nice, but I would not have had the same interpretation in at least two cases:

A person does not block the a doorway if he is not actively doing this, which would negate sanctuary. For me, it's a bit too much of metagaming around the "space" occupied by a creature.
Daylight as a spell does not cause vampires to turn to dust (it's not sunlight, see Sage Advice here), it's way too powerful an effect for only a 3rd level spell, and I'm sorry but it was clearly used a case of a spell used to affect an enemy, as per the sanctuary description.

But of course, as your DM, he was right about your game.

TheSword · Mar 17, 2022

humble minion said:
To play devil's advocate though - surely there's a time limit of some sort?

I mean, if i dropped caltrops in a dungeon 8 levels ago and 200 miles away, and then when I've got Sanctuary up and running in some completely unrelated encounter, a random wandering goblin comes along and stands on a caltrop - does my Sanctuary expire?

Or there's Glyph of Warding. I'm sure that if i have a pre-prepared Glyph engraved on a rock or something, and while under a Sanctuary I deliberately take the rock out of my pocket and show it to an enemy, and the glyph triggers - that'd certainly cancel Sanctuary. But if I'm resting in a dungeon, having cast Glyph on the door to the room I'm sleeping in, and 6 hours into my long rest the sound of footsteps outside wakes me up and i cast Sanctuary - and then the critter outside triggers the Glyph - what about then? What if i cast a Glyph on the outside of a mask and then put the mask on and cast Sanctuary on myself and wander around until i meet a bad guy, and then the Glyph goes off - what about then?

And of course by the strictest letter of the rules Sanctuary won't expire if i cast a non-instantaneous spell BEFORE I was under the Sanctuary, that then goes on to affect an enemy creature in a non-damaging way. So i could cast Eyebite, then an ally could cast Sanctuary on me, and then I could walk around under the Sanctuary's protection Eyebiting people at will and the Sanctuary would be unaffected. And it won't expire at all if i perform a non-spell action that affects another creature in a non-damaging manner, so long as i don't make an attack in the process. Turning Undead, for example, or an Enchanter wizard's Hypnotic Gaze ability.

Mind you, the intent of the rule is pretty clear, and if you try any of these dodgy exploits you deserve every bit of what your DM is going to do to your PC...

I think this is a good point. If I dig a pit in my garden to lay some piping and a week later during a combat where I’ve cast sanctuary someone falls into it, I probably shouldn’t lose the spell.

I would draw a distinction between an activity where the recipients involvement in the activity is complete - laying caltrops - and one where it isn’t complete - directing a Bigby’s Hand to keep smashing someone.

Spells with concentration but that don’t require direct intervention would fall into this category - Wall of Fire for instance, or a summoning spell. My inclination would be to allow these to work unless the player started to abuse it.

Blue · Mar 17, 2022

humble minion said:
To play devil's advocate though - surely there's a time limit of some sort?

I mean, if i dropped caltrops in a dungeon 8 levels ago and 200 miles away, and then when I've got Sanctuary up and running in some completely unrelated encounter, a random wandering goblin comes along and stands on a caltrop - does my Sanctuary expire?

All of the examples from the OP were the where the character was Concentrating or using an action/reaction/etc. In other words all were actively being done.

You can drop cantrips and then go under sanctuary - you aren't doing anything. You can start a fire and no one can end your sanctuary by sticking their arm in it - but building a fire on a insect hive to kill them would. And the Create Bonfire cantrip requires Concentration, so that would end Sanctuary if it damaged someone.

humble minion said:
Or there's Glyph of Warding. I'm sure that if i have a pre-prepared Glyph engraved on a rock or something, and while under a Sanctuary I deliberately take the rock out of my pocket and show it to an enemy, and the glyph triggers - that'd certainly cancel Sanctuary. But if I'm resting in a dungeon, having cast Glyph on the door to the room I'm sleeping in, and 6 hours into my long rest the sound of footsteps outside wakes me up and i cast Sanctuary - and then the critter outside triggers the Glyph - what about then? What if i cast a Glyph on the outside of a mask and then put the mask on and cast Sanctuary on myself and wander around until i meet a bad guy, and then the Glyph goes off - what about then?

There will always be corner cases, that's why we have DMs. As a DM, I would look at how active you are - the door example would be no problem. The mask one is tricky, fun to think about.

D&D 5E Santuary and "deals damage to another creature"

Crimson Terrain

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