Ukraine invasion

Sepulchrave II said:

Here's a map of Ukraine's natural gas reserves:

View attachment 154987

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there is also huge deposits of lithium around Mariupol.

Guess if you do not have a city near ecological bomb of lithium mining you have less protests for that...

Sepulchrave II said:

Here's a map of Ukraine's natural gas reserves:

Click to expand...

Horwath said:

there is also huge deposits of lithium around Mariupol.

Guess if you do not have a city near ecological bomb of lithium mining you have less protests for that...

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And there it is. Food, energy, and future energy and tech base. I was just reading an article somewhere about the salt flats actually having a lot of lithium, and the ecological debate on lithium mining (local toxicities vs improved energy storage).

That makes sense to me. In particular, why absolutely hammer Mariupol? I see the angle.

Found Ukrainian products to buy.



Russian beer go F yourself.

well this is interesting Report: Sweden and Finland to join NATO over Ukraine invasion

trappedslider said:

well this is interesting Report: Sweden and Finland to join NATO over Ukraine invasion

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You know, if someone had told me a decade ago that I might get a chance to hear about Finnish snipers taking on Soviet... sorry, Russian soldiers in my lifetime, I wouldn't have believed them.

Looking at the videos of "Ukrainian Curling" all that i can think of Camper Van Beethoven's song "Take the Skinheads Bowling."

trappedslider said:

well this is interesting Report: Sweden and Finland to join NATO over Ukraine invasion

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I was having a convo with a friend the other day and he insisted that the invasion was a result of NATO expansion - more or less blaming, at least in part, the US and NATO for the invasion - and I predicted that within 10 years NATO would massively expand. Right prediction, massively wrong timeline.

Hussar said:

I was having a convo with a friend the other day and he insisted that the invasion was a result of NATO expansion - more or less blaming, at least in part, the US and NATO for the invasion - and I predicted that within 10 years NATO would massively expand. Right prediction, massively wrong timeline.

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There are quite a few conservatives spinning this line but I’m not entirely sure it’s completely wrong or completely alien to international relations. Just imagine how concerned we’d be if Canada joined an alliance with China. And, historically, look at how we lost our naughty word over Cuba.

There‘s no doubt that the expansion of NATO is a source of significant tension and undermines Russian prestige on the international stage. And there’s no doubt it has bred resentment at the Kremlin. Ukraine’s shift to a more actively pro-EU is the proximate event that sparked Russia’s reaction.

It’s entirely reasonable to consider Russia’s reaction a gross overreaction, particularly when you keep in mind that the expansion was largely driven by former Soviet republics/satellite states looking for protection, but there are schools of thought that consider this semi-normal behavior in international relations.

Where did I see this...maybe here...can't recall...BUT...

A lot of comparison of what Russia is like today and what it has been doing has been compared to the Nazi's...or at least what we, in the West, see Nazi's as.

It is very popular in Ukraine to also see them as such these days, with the Z that Russians have on their vehicles being utilized as a naZi symbol, or the new Nazi symbol

HOWEVER...

One point of view that I've seen related in how Russians view the Nazi's is very different than our views. They didn't care that the Nazi's had the Holocaust (and in fact, it is thought that Stalin killed a lot more Jews and other minorities, some guesses as high as 3X as many as Hitler and the Nazi's did). They didn't care that the Nazi's were facists. What they DID care about was that the Nazi's attacked Russia and then tried to eradicate Russian culture. Thus, those who attempt to destroy or harm Russia by default fall under their idea of what a Nazi is.

In this definition NATO and Europe have definately been the Nazi's to the Russian People over the past 25 years. It was not so much that new nations separated and became new nations from the Soviet Block after the fall of the USSR, butt that it appears that the Russian cultural impact and effect is disappearing and being replaced with Western morals and cultural views. It is a NEW invasion upon Russian heritage and culture. The last time this happened was the Great War against the Nazi's. It is THIS comparison to Nazi's that they are making (NOT the one that we are making). In this light, to them, WE are the invaders, and as we appropriate former Soviet nations into the Western umbrella, to them it is akin to what happened in World War 2 as the Nazi's slowly took over various lands owned by the USSR.

To them, the Nazi's are not what we view Nazi's as, but those who destroy Russian culture and try to change it to a different one. As more areas of what they consider Russian nations are enveloped and then accepted into the EU and NATO, it would probably seem to them as if a New Nazi (in their definition) threat has arisen to destroy the Russian people once more.

To be clear...

I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE ABOVE IDEAS. I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE RUSSIAN ATTACK ON UKRAINE. I SUPPORT UKRAINE AND BELIEVE THEY ARE THE GOOD GUYS IN ALL OF THIS, AND RUSSIA IS BEING THE AGGRESSOR AND THE BAD GUYS.

I pointed out the above view because it may be that we and the Russians are saying things that use the same words, but mean VERY DIFFERENT things to each side.

GreyLord said:

I pointed out the above view because it may be that we and the Russians are saying things that use the same words, but mean VERY DIFFERENT things to each side.

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I have often found this to be the case, and not just in politics.