D&D 5E How difficult should Difficulty be?

Stalker0 said:

I have the exact opposite problem, for me DC 30 is far too easy. Over multiple campaigns my players always find ways to jack up their checks around 5th or 6th level.

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Cap'n Kobold said:

Yes. If you have a party with a number of intelligent characters with the right proficiency, the group as a whole will have a much better chance of succeeding than just one.

But I take check difficulties as being how the average person-on-the-street would think of them, rather than my player's characters.


What did he roll?

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Stalker0 said:

I think he rolled 19 (with advantage). Cleric gave him a +4 with the guidance and he has a +7 bonus if I’m not mistaken (+4 int, +3 prof).

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DND_Reborn said:

Ok, so tier 2. Proficiency is +3, even with maximum ability is +8... so still not even a 20 does it. They are at a point where a feat could double the proficiency bonus, so we'll go with that as well, making it +11. Now, they have a chance!

Guidance is +2 or 3 on average, a bard's inspiration (very limited uses) is +4 or 5, so together let's say +7 on average.

Now, you are up to +18. Give advantage and yes, you are at 70% (with expertise) or 50/50 (roughly, without expertise).

But, that assume a bard (with limited inspiration uses, granted short rest by that point) and guidance... oh, and the PC is no longer doing it alone...

Also, helping for advantage is not as easy as most people use it:

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So, that means your PC "helping" also needs proficiency and maximum (or near it) ability and/or expertise to even have a chance. Otherwise, they can't help. If you have two such PCs in one group, with two PCs to do guidance (since it requires concentration) and/or a bard possibly expending two inspirations.

I don't know, IMO that is a LOT of ducks in a row. You mentioned your PCs are good at team-dynamics, but a lot of players aren't that well organized IME. I suppose if the DC comes up rarely, your group can handle it, but again a lot of PCs can't handle such tasks with even a decent chance of success.

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DND_Reborn said:

Well, that was the same 19 or 20 needed in the OP...

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Stalker0 said:

I consider your definition of working together a bit stingy. The rules doesn’t say that the character has to be able to “succeed” alone, just attempt, and the example provided is having appropriate proficiencies. For example I often won’t let me players attempt a knowledge help unless they have that knowledge.

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Stalker0 said:

For example I often won’t let me players attempt a knowledge help unless they have that knowledge.

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Stalker0 said:

Regardless my party also likes enhance ability for those times I won’t let them use help

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Stalker0 said:

I think he rolled 19 (with advantage). Cleric gave him a +4 with the guidance and he has a +7 bonus if I’m not mistaken (+4 int, +3 prof).

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Cap'n Kobold said:

OK. So more than 96% chance of failure even when using party synergy.

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Charlaquin said:

I think the names accurately reflect the difficulty the numbers they are assigned to. If you are finding the DCs are generally too high in your games, lowering them by 5 across the board seems like a reasonable solution, but I don’t think you need to change the names of the difficulty categories.

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• Very easy should be 0. So simply you can't really fail unless you have penalties and roll badly.
• Easy at 5 makes more sense IMO. With proficiency and/or a decent ability score, failure is very unlikely (if at all).
• Medium at 10 is a bit challenging at lower levels, but at higher levels or with help/magic/expertise is not too bad.
• Hard at 15 is starting to actually be hard. Lower levels have a reasonable chance to fail, and even higher level PCs can fail with a bad roll.
• Very Hard at 20 means even someone with +0 has a 1 in 20 chance to succeed. It is a statistical anolomoly if such a creature does it and a lot of luck was involved. Lower levels have a chance, but aren't likely, and even high level PCs will find it challenging more often than not.
• Nearly Impossible at 25 requires a high ability or expertise to even have a chance, and both to have a decent chance.
• "Impossible" could be at 30 still, if it ever comes up... I've never seen it in use personally.