Spelljammer Spelljammer Shows Up In The Wild - Check Out The Tables of Contents

Havrik Stoneskimmer · Aug 7, 2022

Ondath said:
Also, 4E already named the Astral Plane the Astral Sea, so that's conceptually closer to the deep ocean vibe they want to go for with Spelljammer.

Also, "astral".

Levistus's_Leviathan · Aug 7, 2022

Faolyn said:
But what and where are the stars!?

The stars are the light from other Wildspace Bubbles/Spheres that can somehow travel through the Astral Plane. So, they're actually stars, not dots on a Crystal Sphere or portals to the Plane of Radiance anymore.

Ondath · Aug 7, 2022

Faolyn said:
I think you could still have separate cosmologies. The Abyss of Dragonlance is separate from the Abyss of the Great Wheel; the Great Dome is different from Mount Celestia or other Good planes of the Wheel. I mean, the planes are each infinitely big, and there's an infinite number of planes, so there's nothing stopping you from having completely different cosmologies.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if they broke up the Great Wheel in the same way they broke up the Ravenloft Core. Have the divine domains and various points of interest by themselves.

The problem is that (at least in its 2E rendition) the combined cosmology of Planescape officially said that there's only the Great Wheel. Krynnfolk were just clueless berks for thinking that Tiamat was named Takhisis and lived in the Abyss, when the cool and edgy bloods all knew that wasn't the case. Since 5E is running on some rendition of this cosmology, it's likely that we are getting One and True Great Wheel in the upcoming Planescape book as well, and Spelljammer being connected to the One Astral Sea will be one step in that.

Faolyn · Aug 7, 2022

Ondath said:
The problem is that (at least in its 2E rendition) the combined cosmology of Planescape officially said that there's only the Great Wheel. Krynnfolk were just clueless berks for thinking that Tiamat was named Takhisis and lived in the Abyss, when the cool and edgy bloods all knew that wasn't the case. Since 5E is running on some rendition of this cosmology, it's likely that we are getting One and True Great Wheel in the upcoming Planescape book as well, and Spelljammer being connected to the One Astral Sea will be one step in that.

<Shrug> It's still easy to ignore for a personal setting. You don't have to have both Planescape and Spelljammer in the same game, of course. I'm not entirely sure I would.

It could also be that, since the planes are built on belief, most Planars believe in the Great Wheel and so see the multiverse that way, while Primes see the multiverse the way that their homeworld says it is. It's just that when Primes end up in Sigil, the Bloods there gaslight the Clueless into seeing the multiverse in a different way so they come to believe that they had been wrong the whole time. But in reality, the Planers are as wrong, and as right, as the Primes are.

overgeeked · Aug 7, 2022

I'm with the people talking about just putting crystal spheres back in. The whole "coexisting" on two planes at once and talking about superpositions is too much. I'm using crystal spheres. Once you leave the sphere you travel to the Astral Sea. Done. So much simpler than whatever "slow entry into the Astral Plane" thing they're using now.

SkidAce · Aug 7, 2022

overgeeked said:
I'm with the people talking about just putting crystal spheres back in. The whole "coexisting" on two planes at once and talking about superpositions is too much. I'm using crystal spheres. Once you leave the sphere you travel to the Astral Sea. Done. So much simpler than whatever "slow entry into the Astral Plane" thing they're using now.

Hyperspace is the way to go.

Easier on the edges of the solar/planetary system, can almost see it with the naked eye (gray haze).

Still lets you gaze/look/travel past the edges of the system and see other worlds.

Micah Sweet · Aug 7, 2022

Faolyn said:
Maybe the Astral Sea is like hyperspace. You dip into it to travel at FTL speeds. Or at the speed of thought, which is what the Astral mostly is, anyway.

I'm sticking with the idea I posted upthread, where you pass through a portal to the Astral if you approach the edge of the Wildspace system at spelljamming speeds, but if you don't you come against the crystal sphere, from which you can pass through into the Phlogiston. The Flow is actually faster travel than the Astral, but it has all the flammability issues of the old Phlogiston, it's pretty empty, and what is out there is Great Old One level dangerous. Thus, most people use the Astral.

Charlaquin · Aug 7, 2022

Ondath said:
The problem is that (at least in its 2E rendition) the combined cosmology of Planescape officially said that there's only the Great Wheel. Krynnfolk were just clueless berks for thinking that Tiamat was named Takhisis and lived in the Abyss, when the cool and edgy bloods all knew that wasn't the case. Since 5E is running on some rendition of this cosmology, it's likely that we are getting One and True Great Wheel in the upcoming Planescape book as well, and Spelljammer being connected to the One Astral Sea will be one step in that.

Off-topic, but has always been my beef with Elder Scrolls lore. Like, yeah, I guess it’s cool that Khajit have their own religion with lots of parallels and points of divergence from what the other races believe, but… I’ve literally talked to Sheogorath. He’s not a cat, and he’s not particularly into skooma.

Mind of tempest · Aug 7, 2022

Charlaquin said:
Off-topic, but has always been my beef with Elder Scrolls lore. Like, yeah, I guess it’s cool that Khajit have their own religion with lots of parallels and points of divergence from what the other races believe, but… I’ve literally talked to Sheogorath. He’s not a cat, and he’s not particularly into skooma.

counter point this is also sheo

Ondath · Aug 7, 2022

Charlaquin said:
Off-topic, but has always been my beef with Elder Scrolls lore. Like, yeah, I guess it’s cool that Khajit have their own religion with lots of parallels and points of divergence from what the other races believe, but… I’ve literally talked to Sheogorath. He’s not a cat, and he’s not particularly into skooma.

While I get the sentiment, I think things relating to the Outer Planes should have some ambiguity to them. Otherwise outer planes just become nice locales with different colour palettes, and you don't get anything majorly religion-y or mysterious about them. So for me the problem in your example wouldn't be the Khajit having an objectively wrong view, but the games giving you an objectively right experience of things that should be left open-ended.

Spelljammer Spelljammer Shows Up In The Wild - Check Out The Tables of Contents

Havrik Stoneskimmer

Adventurer

Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer

Ondath

Hero

Faolyn

(she/her)

overgeeked

B/X Known World

SkidAce

Legend

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)

Mind of tempest

(he/him)advocate for 5e psionics

Ondath

Hero

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