Dragonlance Dragonlance "Reimagined".

Micah Sweet said:

There's no reasonable way to explain it, true. But the only reason to call it "Dragonlance" is financial. They're welcome to do that, of course, but I agree with it.

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Yikes.

Definitely nothing to do with anyone at wizards loving the setting.

I just…come on man.

They’re changing some stuff that has been giving them trouble since 3e. That doesn’t make it “not really Dragonlance” or whatever.

It’s still a story about a world rediscovering faith, rallying to stop a great evil in a devastating war, and riding on dragon to duel other dragons in the sky like absolute maniacs.

DL started as some wild stuff that evoked images that belong on the side a rad van, and I have seen nothing to suggest that will be changing.

I put this reimagining on about a similar bar to Battlestar Galactica*. Sounds like its going to hit most of the same beats as before, but the specifics are likely to be wildly different. Jury is still out on whether I'll end up loving it, but so far I'm excited to give it a try. My hope is I can get my gaming group on board to play through the new campaign. My attempts to do the old DL series did not pan out as I would have hoped, I'm hoping by backing away from being the actual Heroes of the Lance characters, this will land a lot better.

* I should note, I have a strong love/hate with old vs. new BSG - some things I liked but a lot I hated [Starbuck], and its what started me loathing most of the re-invisioning of franchises I've seen over the years.

“Dragonlance is a story of love and friendship set against a backdrop of war.” --Margaret Weis

I've been a fan of Dragonlance novels and game materials since the 80's and have watched it be massively overhauled in real time over all those years in both the novels and game. Taladas, The Chaos War, War of Souls, Age of Mortals. The Fifth Age card game for crying out loud. Every one of those (dating back to the late 80's) was so different than what I fell in love with from "the Holy Six" (Chronicles/Legends.) Some changes I liked, some I loved, some were so off-putting I totally ignored them.

So "re-imagining" Krynn is nothing new, but it can be done in a satisfying manner especially if they always adhere to Margaret Weis' quote above and retain at least the broad strokes of such staples as Towers of High Sorcery, Knights of Solamnia, Dragonriders, Dragonlances (duh), Draconians and the like.

Obviously the jury is out until the full set is released in December (or November for those getting the early preview) but I can't help but feel excited about the idea of having yet another opportunity to dive into the setting and actually learn something new again (otherwise it's just same ol' same ol' but with updated game mechanics.) Plus anyone who wants to apply the new books to a pre-existing campaign can just ignore any elements that would break the lore of their own games.

And this has literally been going on since the 1st Edition! In the 1987 DL Sourcebook co-written by Tracy Hickman himself for instance, Knights of Solamnia are listed as variants of the 1E UA Cavalier but with different Titles, Special Abilities (the option for Weapon Specialization) and Orders that they can ultimately join. Those are pretty much the only differences listed in the "Game Data" section of KoS. But then if you flip to Cavaliers in 1E UA you'll see that humans, elves, half-elves and women can all become Cavaliers with no restrictions called out in the DL Sourcebook. So literally as early as 1987 you had official rules allowing for an incredibly diverse array of Knights that greatly expanded upon the notion of an army of white male humans with long mustaches that were showcased in the novels. And do you know what me and my friends' reactions were back in 1987? "Cool."

Something that I thought was decidedly "uncool?" Freaking Kagonesti elves having an Intelligence cap of 12. It didn't stop me from playing one though or commissioning Wayne Reynolds to one day paint my character (see my avatar).

All that is to say that we've had Krynn sourcebooks that have deviated from the canon of the novels (implied or otherwise) right from the get go and it wasn't because OG TSR (and Tracy Hickman himself!) were just callously throwing out a new sourcebook with "Dragonlance" stamped on the cover to cash in on the name. So I'm going to reserve judgment until I have the new material in hand and hope for the best in the meantime.

Hussar said:

Why should they?

Why not simply reset the setting to the point where sorcerers and warlocks are there right from the outset instead of trying to pound square pegs into round holes and explain stuff that just won't make anyone happy. Setting purists will complain about the retcon and everyone else will be annoyed by the waste of page count.

This is why I keep harping on the idea of "inspired by". This Dragonlance isn't a retcon or a rerelease of the original. It's a new take on the base idea - a setting where dragons play a major role in the everyday lives of the population. Where a massive war between said dragons dominates the setting. It's a setting where good and evil are having it out but instead of angels and demons, we have mortals fighting.

I mean, what kind of retcon could add sorcerers and warlocks to the setting and still make sense? Never minding spell casting bards who have healing spells. Oh, and the fact that almost every single class has spells? Do rangers have to take the Test of High Wizardry? After all, any caster that gets higher than 2nd level spells is supposed to take the test. Oh, and exactly how do we retcon barbarians being able to fly? On and on and on.

Of course they aren't going to explain this. That's a rabbit hole that you'll never find your way out of.

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Well said. For all we know Sorcerers and Tieflings will be integrated into the new Dragonlance Setting as seamlessly as modern Bucky was into the MCU.

Sure we had multiple decades of Silver and Copper Age Cap where "Nobody stays dead in comics except Uncle Ben and Bucky" was one of the most sacred of all cows. But in an attempt to modernize and expand Cap's story the lore was rebooted both in comics and on film to the point that not only would most current fans have a hard time imagining Bucky not being alive but many to this day rank The Winter Soldier as one of the best, if not the best, of all the films in the MCU.

Now obviously that doesn't mean that the new DL game materials will set the world on fire but it wouldn't be unheard of if the new interpretations become just as iconic, or at the bare minimum valid, as what came before.

Kai Lord said:

Well said. For all we know Sorcerers and Tieflings will be integrated into the new Dragonlance Setting as seamlessly as modern Bucky was into the MCU.

Sure we had multiple decades of Silver and Copper Age Cap where "Nobody stays dead in comics except Uncle Ben and Bucky" was one of the most sacred of all cows. But in an attempt to modernize and expand Cap's story the lore was rebooted both in comics and on film to the point that not only would most current fans have a hard time imagining Bucky not being alive but many to this day rank The Winter Soldier as one of the best, if not the best, of all the films in the MCU.

Now obviously that doesn't mean that the new DL game materials will set the world on fire but it wouldn't be unheard of if the new interpretations become just as iconic, or at the bare minimum valid, as what came before.

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I will note that in the Winter Soldier example, Marvel didn't actually change the known history of the Marvel Universe to incorporate Bucky's survival. They added to it, revealing information we didn't have previously. If Dragonlance did that, I wouldn't complain (I might not buy it or accept in my game, but I wouldn't complain).

Decades of comic book lore where Bucky is very much dead overturned by not only having Bucky come back but also making him a brainwashed super soldier isn’t a change?

Seriously?

How about Uncle Ben then? Or Peter’s parents? Or Aunt May going from a frail elderly woman to a serious MILF?

Which version of Spider-man would you like to talk about?

Hussar said:

Decades of comic book lore where Bucky is very much dead overturned by not only having Bucky come back but also making him a brainwashed super soldier isn’t a change?

Seriously?

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They didn't say it wasn't a change. They said it was a positive change.

And when it comes to comics and most stories, I tend to agree. Live character: loads of possibility. Dead character: angst sink at best.

Hussar said:

How about Uncle Ben then?

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He'd certainly have told his nephew not to sell his marriage to Satan, thus erasing his future daughter from existence. That's for sure.

Hussar said:

Or Peter’s parents?

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They came back.

Then they were robots.

Then they were a bad plot line in the Garfield movies.

Hussar said:

Or Aunt May going from a frail elderly woman to a serious MILF?

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BEST. CHANGE.

Hussar said:

Which version of Spider-man would you like to talk about?

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The one where he's a cartoon pig.

Bringing it back to the Weiss quote, wouldn't it be great if the 'War' mechanics we get in DL are stuff that brings actual teamwork mechanics into the game?

Vaalingrade said:

Bringing it back to the Weiss quote, wouldn't it be great if the 'War' mechanics we get in DL are stuff that brings actual teamwork mechanics into the game?

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Best I can do is a crummy wargame.

Micah Sweet said:

I will note that in the Winter Soldier example, Marvel didn't actually change the known history of the Marvel Universe to incorporate Bucky's survival. They added to it, revealing information we didn't have previously. If Dragonlance did that, I wouldn't complain (I might not buy it or accept in my game, but I wouldn't complain).

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But Ed Brubaker didn't reveal new information that we didn't have previously. He completely rebooted the entirety of Cap's continuity with his 2005 "Man Out of Time" story arc which led right into The Winter Soldier. Full disclosure I've been a Cap fan since the late 70's and own a comic collection that dates back to the 40's and trust me, if you were to sit down and just read Captain America from his debut in 1941 to today you would find that it is absolutely not one continuous story.

There's at a minimum three different continuities, though Marvel likes to essentially trick new readers into thinking that there aren't. You've got 1941 Cap who was injected with a needle, never knew Peggy Carter and punched bad guys with a teenage Bucky until well into the 50's. You've got 1964 Cap who drank the serum from a test tube, did know Peggy and did not do battle in the 50's and was instead frozen in the ice moments after he watched Bucky die in an explosion in 1944. And then you've got 2005 Cap that said that Bucky was an adult badass in WWII and was captured by the Russians after only losing an arm. And don't even get me started on the (IMO) lame super "noir" setting that Brubaker thought Steve had to exist in with everything constantly being half covered in shadow and Cap brooding all over the place like he's Bruce freaking Wayne.

But then the MCU comes along and offers yet another "Square One" reboot that ingeniously mines from all three previous continuities and takes elements that were previously in conflict and seamlessly integrates them into one narrative for all new fans going forward and for any old fans willing to embrace it. As is usually the case it all comes down to execution.

As you might be able to detect from my statements above I do not like the Brubaker stuff. He went on record in multiple interviews saying that before he wrote Cap he was always a Bucky fan and then lo and behold when he takes over the book Cap is killed so that his pet character can pick up the shield. I called BS on that and to this day no longer own any of his books. If they do that with Dragonlance, ("Wizards of High Sorcery are dead! Long live the Warlocks!") then yeah I'll dismiss that too, lol.

But what I'm assuming they'll do will be closer to the MCU. Bring in Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Tieflings simply because they're cool and fun but only as options to exist side by side with what was previously established, not to upstage or replace.

And even going back to your original supposition that Marvel only "revealed information that we previously didn't know" well they can easily go that route with Warlocks or Tieflings. Like Taladas (surprise! here's a new continent) they can just say "hey, look over here, a brand new island covered in fog with an isolated people descended from fiends who get their magic from their infernal ancestors."

Could borrow a page from 4e and make them descendants of a fallen empire whose nobility made a deal with Hiddukel.