Unpopular opinions go here

Jd Smith1 · Jul 31, 2023

Reynard said:
One of the things that I think unintentionally encourages murderhoboism is the tendency to handwave all the "boring" stuff. You don't have to roleplay every shopping trip or night at the tavern, but if you engage with some of these non-threatening and mundane activities, the players will feel like their characters are part of a more real world and will probably do less flagrant idiocy while in town. Probably.

That is a good point, and a major feature of my campaigns.

And it is one of the many things I hate about D&D and its clones: there is insufficient wear and tear on PCs.

In my campaign, the PCs generally reach their destination tired, stressed, nursing wound effects, low on ammo, needing fuel, and so forth. One or more will generally be sick (flu), they're all filthy, and none have had a full night's sleep in weeks. They'll have loot to convert to cash, and a shopping list of stuff they want or need. Plus research to do on a variety of subjects.

All those situations can be quickly and easily resolved in a town (preferably city) of reasonable size, but it gives the PCs a very real reason to comport themselves like gentlemen. Even more so when they operate in a specific region for months at a time (although our current campaign is nomadic).

One of the reasons for misconduct, I have found, is idle PCs. I make sure that every PC has assigned duties when they get back to civilization, and a need for downtime to further their PC's improvement. Therefore, urban time is a busy time; in the twenty-odd minutes (at the table) it takes to sort through the admin stuff and get set up for RP'ing whatever investigation(s) are currently underway, everyone is engaged.

doctorbadwolf · Jul 31, 2023

Pedantic said:
I don't see why you couldn't do both. Just make the flashback a response you pay for and/or a loss condition. The ideal state is that you don't use any, but you have X resource that can be spent on them.

That could work for groups that really like detailed planning, for sure.

IME a lot of players hit a wall eventually, and might be more engaged if they know we are only planning certain aspects, and leaving the rest to that “flashback” back and forth.

CleverNickName · Jul 31, 2023

MGibster said:
There have been numerous times over the years my fear of railroading has led to me keeping my mouth shut to the detriment of everyone at the table. These days my desire to make sure everyone is having fun outweighs fear of railroading.

I promise I'm not trolling when I ask this:

What is it about "railroading" that frightens you so much?

Dannyalcatraz · Jul 31, 2023

doctorbadwolf said:
Most dumping on 5e or D&D in general online is just hipster grousing, and it goes by with little pushback because it’s currently “cool” to dislike 5e D&D.

Mod Note:

“Hipster grousing”? Really? Why include potshots like this in an thread that’s inherently going to push people’s buttons to a greater or lesser extent?

Do better in the future.

aramis erak · Jul 31, 2023

doctorbadwolf said:
5e D&D is more popular than any TTRPG ever made by such an enormous margin (probably bigger than the next 10 biggest combined) because it’s a good game.

Only about triple that of Pathfinder, actually, if looking at the best available sources (Orr Gp reports on Roll20, ICV2 reports)
The third tier, that of major big names other than D&D or PF, seems to be nibbling away at D&D more than at PF... in terms of percentage. In terms of absolute numbers, D&D is continuing to grow, but others are growing more...
And that third tier is just big enough to surpass D&D for a given quarter.

But high sales is not proof of being good. It's proof of not being bad, but "not bad" is not the same as good. It's like McDonalds. McD's is consistent, very seldom is it bad, but there are many much better burger joints - but many don't agree which are superior - Wendy's, Burger King, Jack-in-the-Box, Burgerville, Denny's, Red Robin, etc...

in 1999, due to expected scale of sales, the PHB was priced at 19.95... later printings were more... First printing of 5E was cheaper than later printings, again, scale or sales allowed that first run to cost less.

mamba · Jul 31, 2023

aramis erak said:
Only about triple that of Pathfinder, actually, if looking at the best available sources (Orr Gp reports on Roll20, ICV2 reports)

you mean 10 times or so, if you combine PF1 and PF2....

MGibster · Jul 31, 2023

CleverNickName said:
I promise I'm not trolling when I ask this:

What is it about "railroading" that frightens you so much?

This is a legitimate question and nothing resembling trolling. As a GM, I have no desire to tell players how to play their characters. As a player I would resent the GM telling me how to play my character, so as the GM I try to extend that same courtesy to my players. I am also a Consequentialist GM, meaning that the I'm perfectly comfortable when the actions of the PCs have consequences that might be good, bad, or amount to nothing depending on the situation. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Do cool, unexpected things, maybe win cool, unexpected prizes.

Generally speaking, I'm delighted when the PCs do something unexpected or clever that surprised me. Even if it results in them rendering a carefully planned fight or obstacle moot, I'm okay with that. Even something disruptive and harmful to the group is fine, just so long as it makes sense within the context of the game. The kind of disruption I'm talking about is just pointless baloney like smacking the vampire prince with a fish because you're a "crazy" Malkavian or killing a prisoner when everyone else in the group isn't keen on murder.

This can be a difficult thing to talk about, because what's appropriate in one game might not be appropriate in another. Even when I'm the GM for both games.

Dannyalcatraz · Jul 31, 2023

MGibster said:
There are times when the GM needs to stop the game, ask the player what they're trying to accomplish, and explain to them the ramifications of what they're about to do just so everyone's on the same page.

I’ve been on both sides of this equation, and IMHO, it probably doesn’t happen enough. Lord knows I haven’t done it a few times when it probably would have helped a great deal.

FACT: at least one of those opportunities was in a game where I was operating at my self-perceived peak as a GM, and my flub cost the group a player. He might have left the group eventually anyway, but it happened on my watch.

MGibster · Jul 31, 2023

Autumnal said:
Star Wars changed my mind about Basic Roleplaying recently.

Like many folks, I’ve griped a lot about too-low skill levels in BRP-based games. But a few weeks ago I rewatched Star Wars, the original one, for the first time in ages. And just look at our heroes! They screw up right, left, and center! Many of the movie‘s best lines come from our heroes screwing up, and they screw up a lot. The only modification BRP needs to get the whole thing perfectly is some kind of hero points, earned on screwups and spendable on bonuses to crucial roles later. It’s just a matter of the right frame of reference.

There's a big difference between a movie and playing an RPG. Though to their credit, Final Fantasy's version of Star Wars included a way for characters to get those same bad results you see in the movie and keep things moving.

Edit: That should be Fantasy Flight Games' version not Final Fantasy.

Celebrim · Jul 31, 2023

MGibster said:
There have been numerous times over the years my fear of railroading has led to me keeping my mouth shut to the detriment of everyone at the table. These days my desire to make sure everyone is having fun outweighs fear of railroading.

It is a delicate balance. You have to consider the particular players and situation, I think.

Unpopular opinions go here

Jd Smith1

Hero

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing (He/They)

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator

aramis erak

Legend

mamba

Legend

MGibster

Legend

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator

MGibster

Legend

Celebrim

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