D&D 5E We Would Hate A BG3 Campaign

Oofta · Jan 7, 2024

I don't know, I guess a roving mauler could exist in my world because I haven't specifically X'ed it out. But the odds are pretty small. What's a roving mauler? One of the dumbest critters ever published ...

In other words, I don't see what the point of the question is other than as a "Gotcha!"

mamba · Jan 7, 2024

ezo said:
The bartender could be fearful, suspicious, curious, friendly (maybe his life was saved by a dragon before?), or whatever. The general anomosity against a race by the common folk doesn't imply every commoner has to follow it.

I'm sure (or hopeful anyway) you agree with that, as well.

I do, general animosity does not translate into everyone being hostile, but to me the innkeeper used in the example was a representation of the general public's attitude, it was not about whether exceptions to it exist

mamba · Jan 7, 2024

Remathilis said:
Those DMs who run carefully curated worlds: Do you go through the Monster Manual (or any other monster book) and categorically decry "this monster does not exist in my world"? Not, "I haven't decided" or any other non-committal answer, I mean "this does/doesn't categorically exist." Because I think the majority of DMs wouldn't go through the MM on Day One and whittle down their options

no, but I also see no need for that. I can decide that when looking for what to put into an encounter. Since I am the only one choosing here, there is no need to communicate / decide this upfront. Also, there are what, 20 races and 500 monsters? Not the same effort, nor the same need / urgency

While this has not been decided for every entry in the MM, I absolutely do know at a high level, e.g. whether there is an Underdark / Mind Flayers and Aboleths or whatever.

J.Quondam · Jan 7, 2024

Oofta said:
I don't know, I guess a roving mauler could exist in my world because I haven't specifically X'ed it out. But the odds are pretty small. What's a roving mauler? One of the dumbest critters ever published ...

View attachment 342843

Whoah... That might be even better than a liger.

Remathilis · Jan 7, 2024

mamba said:
no, but I also see no need for that. I can decide that when looking for what to put into an encounter. Since I am the only one choosing here, there is no need to communicate / decide this upfront. Also, there are what, 20 races and 500 monsters? Not the same effort, nor the same need / urgency

While this has not been decided for every entry in the MM, I absolutely do know at a high level, e.g. whether there is an Underdark / Mind Flayers and Aboleths or whatever.

Which is my point. The DM reserves for themselves the right to decide at any given time if a given creature exists in the world or not, but somehow the same courtesy isn't reserved for PC options, despite the fact both can exist in the same Schrodinger's Monster Manual.

Put another way: If I asked all of you if Xvarts exist in your world right now, there are quite a few of you who could answer yes or no, but there would a sizable number who answer "maybe, IDK, the PCs have never encountered one". Yet that doesn't apply to dragonborn. Most everyone here has made up their mind, and very few of you would answer "IDK". Why? Well, I'm guessing the answer isn't setting integrity/consistency, theme/tonal consistency, or any other philosophical argument. It's purely because the DM doesn't HAVE to play those cards face up (unlike PC options) so they choose to ignore them until there is need.

Which does beg the question: if Xvarts can potentially exist just off camera until the DM wants them, why can't dragonborn exist just off camera until a PC wants them?

Oofta · Jan 7, 2024

Remathilis said:
Which is my point. The DM reserves for themselves the right to decide at any given time if a given creature exists in the world or not, but somehow the same courtesy isn't reserved for PC options, despite the fact both can exist in the same Schrodinger's Monster Manual.

Put another way: If I asked all of you if Xvarts exist in your world right now, there are quite a few of you who could answer yes or no, but there would a sizable number who answer "maybe, IDK, the PCs have never encountered one". Yet that doesn't apply to dragonborn. Most everyone here has made up their mind, and very few of you would answer "IDK". Why? Well, I'm guessing the answer isn't setting integrity/consistency, theme/tonal consistency, or any other philosophical argument. It's purely because the DM doesn't HAVE to play those cards face up (unlike PC options) so they choose to ignore them until there is need.

Which does beg the question: if Xvarts can potentially exist just off camera until the DM wants them, why can't dragonborn exist just off camera until a PC wants them?

I include races, and monsters, that I think make sense for the world.

Obvious gotcha question is obvious.

mamba · Jan 7, 2024

Remathilis said:
Which is my point. The DM reserves for themselves the right to decide at any given time if a given creature exists in the world or not, but somehow the same courtesy isn't reserved for PC options, despite the fact both can exist in the same Schrodinger's Monster Manual.

I know this is your point, I just disagree that it is a sensible point. So what if I have not determined ahead of time which monsters exist. In game there is no difference whether I do this beforehand or not

Remathilis said:
Put another way: If I asked all of you if Xvarts exist in your world right now, there are quite a few of you who could answer yes or no, but there would a sizable number who answer "maybe, IDK, the PCs have never encountered one". Yet that doesn't apply to dragonborn. Most everyone here has made up their mind, and very few of you would answer "IDK". Why? Well, I'm guessing the answer isn't setting integrity/consistency, theme/tonal consistency, or any other philosophical argument. It's purely because the DM doesn't HAVE to play those cards face up (unlike PC options) so they choose to ignore them until there is need.

I'd say because it is entirely irrelevant to decide this upfront (no players pick one of the monsters to play) and a lot longer list than a dozen races

Remathilis said:
Which does beg the question: if Xvarts can potentially exist just off camera until the DM wants them, why can't dragonborn exist just off camera until a PC wants them?

if you still do not understand that difference, then I doubt that me saying anything more will help...

If somewhere deep underground Xvarts exist, that makes no difference to the setting the PCs are in. Whether dragonborn are something you encounter every day or as rare as Xvarts, does make a difference

Remathilis · Jan 7, 2024

Oofta said:
I include races, and monsters, that I think make sense for the world.

Obvious gotcha question is obvious.

So I went through the Monster Manual and asked "Does this exist?" you could answer yes or no for each and every monster? Because you can do so for the PC options I wager.

See, I don't believe many DMs actually care much about the internal consistency of their world. That's a front. If they did, they'd know what monsters (and spells and the like) exist in their worlds. Dragonlance, for example, is EXTREMELY specific about what doesn't exist (orcs, lycanthropes, etc) and I don't wager most DMs bother with that. Because they don't need to spell it out since it would be a list for one: the DM and if the DM decides xvarts are stupid, they don't need to say that they just don't use them ever. Instead, they spell out the PC options since that list is for more than just the DM and they must be careful in case someone actually says "Can I be a X?"

In short, I don't think artistic vision has much to do with it, I think it has a lot more to do with "rules for thee, not for me."

Gotcha.

CreamCloud0 · Jan 7, 2024

Remathilis said:
Gotcha.

You really haven’t

Crimson Longinus · Jan 7, 2024

Remathilis said:
So I went through the Monster Manual and asked "Does this exist?" you could answer yes or no for each and every monster? Because you can do so for the PC options I wager.

See, I don't believe many DMs actually care much about the internal consistency of their world. That's a front. If they did, they'd know what monsters (and spells and the like) exist in their worlds. Dragonlance, for example, is EXTREMELY specific about what doesn't exist (orcs, lycanthropes, etc) and I don't wager most DMs bother with that. Because they don't need to spell it out since it would be a list for one: the DM and if the DM decides xvarts are stupid, they don't need to say that they just don't use them ever. Instead, they spell out the PC options since that list is for more than just the DM and they must be careful in case someone actually says "Can I be a X?"

In short, I don't think artistic vision has much to do with it, I think it has a lot more to do with "rules for thee, not for me."

Gotcha.

There is no double standard.

The decision process for monsters and PCs is the same on the aesthetic side, though of course on the PC side one needs to also consider balance matters, but those to me are secondary. But it is rather obvious that for PC facing stuff it is polite to have that decision made before the players start to choose what sort of characters they want to make. For monsters there is no such hurry; if you come across an unsuitable monster later you can just decide to not to use it then.

But for several monsters I decided this beforehand, when I was building the world, as I wanted the monsters to feel like integrated part of the world, so I designed roles for them in it. But there are literally hundreds of monsters and thousands if you count third party stuff which I occasionally use, so it is a tad impractical to firmly decide this for every one of them.

D&D 5E We Would Hate A BG3 Campaign

Oofta

Legend

mamba

Legend

mamba

Legend

J.Quondam

CR 1/8

Remathilis

Legend

Oofta

Legend

mamba

Legend

Remathilis

Legend

CreamCloud0

One day, I hope to actually play DnD.

Crimson Longinus

Legend

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