D&D 5E The Magical Martial

Chaosmancer said:

18 is not a number limited to humans. 18 strength is also as strong as a very strong goliath, or a very strong dwarf, or a very strong robot, or a very strong orc, or a very strong demon. All of which are supernatural creatures who can often be depicted as stronger than a human.

I mean, is the position now going to be that any creature with a strength sub-21 is only as strong as a strong human? That NOTHING is superhumanly strong until a human cannot reach that level? Instead of noting that, your average human in DnD has a strength of 10, and that things stronger than that are still within the reach of highly-trained, heroic humans on fantastical quests?

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Yeah, pretty much. The stat system is too abstracted to make sense the way you want it to.

Gammadoodler said:

There are "simulationist" distinctions that could be made.

A sword blessed by a celestial could be magically effective against fiends or vice versa. Exposure to certain poisons or energies, construction from certain materials, crafting by certain creatures, etc. could also function against resistant creatures in a "simulationist" manner.

And ultimately my problem isn't with the gamist mechanic..necessarily. It's the "simulationist" charade

That works.

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It's no charade. Simulationism, as much as can practically be accomplished, if what I strive for. Scoff if you wish.

Chaosmancer said:

So, what? You want to make multiple creatures immune to multiple different weapons? Immune to slashing and piercing (taking any archer and making them useless) but only resistant to bludgeoning? Then the caster.... oh right, none of those creatures are actually resistant to what a caster can do.

Glad to see how "Realism" and "Common Sense" will always be there to help a fighter out, I was worried it might be used to make them feel useless or something. /s

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That's what magic weapons and supernatural abilities are for.

Micah Sweet said:

It's no charade. Simulationism, as much as can practically be accomplished, if what I strive for. Scoff if you wish.

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Nonspecific mumbojumbo as narrative problem solution is not simulating anything.

It is just a delayed-effect disengagement of critical thinking.

Instead of disengaging on the front-end, you've forced people to wait until the word "magic" is used.

No additional causal links have been established.

The ultimate issue with simulationist philosophy is 'what exactly are you simulating'?

Clint_L said:

I did read it. I think you're trying to mansplain to me why your taste is logical and mine is not.

See above.

See above. Also, I think the explanation and mechanic for primal knowledge is dumb and will be implementing it differently.

See above. No, you're not trying to tell people what to like. You're trying to tell them that what you like makes more sense. Because of course it does. To you. I'm not going to refute each of your points, because they aren't relevant to the real issue, and it would just be me trying to explain why your preferences are wrong and mine are right. The real issue is one of aesthetic.

My aesthetic tastes are clearly different from yours. I will buy into a certain amount of exaggeration with mundane characters, but at a certain point they lose me. Fast and Furious-style action is not for me. Aragorn, Conan, Brienne of Tarth, and Logen Ninefingers can't suddenly jump 100 foot chasms. I want there to continue to be room in D&D for characters who are awesome without needing obviously, in your face supernatural abilities.

I don't see much room for further debate between us on this particular issue, because it's like debating pizza vs. burgers.

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You can call it "mansplaining" if you want, but in fact most of the people responding to me are claiming that my position is not logical. That one race out of 42, and two classes out of 12, and the few subclasses not explicitly stating "MAGIC!" means that everyone is limited to this specific view. That without the word "magic" or "humans are supernatural" written in the book that it is impossible to have those things happen.

And you can love those characters, if you wanted me to pick a favorite character between Saitama (basically a god), Genos (Super-powered hyper cyborg), or Mumen Rider (Dude on Bicycle) I would pick Mumen Rider every single time. He is awesome and very inspirational. He isn't fighting and winning against any of the threats in the series. He isn't a high-level character. I'd limit him to being a level 2 or 3 character AT MOST.

And here is the issue. Since you like Aragorn, Conan, Brienne of Tarth, and Logen Ninefingers... they must be the 20th level fighters of DnD. They can't be represented by lower level characters, because you like them, and you want to keep playing the game up to level 20, therefore, we MUST limit ALL fighters and rogues to fantasy from decades ago than what is being done in high fantasy media now. And it is intensely frustrating, because you could have your characters as lower level characters, but you want to somehow have Brienne of Tarth able to solo Adult dragons, while her own story never let her get anywhere close to that power level, and insist she never gets any more powerful than she was back then.

Uni-the-Unicorn! said:

I mean, when we are talking about “magic” is there any real difference between gaming and simulation? I mean magic exists just for the game, it can’t really simulate anything

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The game can simulate "magic" by looking at reallife "mythological accuracy" of various cultures, including modern popculture genres.

Gammadoodler said:

On the one hand, having a skill that specifically calls out these kinds of activities..good..

On the other hand, requiring it to be a separate skill from athletics..less good.

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True, but I would just make it a non-skill proficient roll.

Micah Sweet said:

The rulebooks are pretty on what race/species/heritages gives you, and what it doesn't. Write down human, you're a human and you get human traits.

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And that includes plenty of supernatural potential. Because DnD humans are supernatural beings, just like literally everyone else in DnD.

ECMO3 said:

I would not let them because it is against the rules and regardless of what I would or would not do, using something that is against the rules to prove that the rules favor Wizards is disingenouos.

There is a fundamental difference between saying the way many people play makes Wizards more powerful vs. the rules make Wizards more powerful and using something that is against the rules can not be an example of the latter.


They absolutely can not do this. To start with they can't smell it using Find Familiar alt all all. Read the spell, it allows for sight and hearing.

Second it does not allow them to do this for a full minute, it allows them to do it from when they take the action to the start of their next turn, which is 6 seconds. They can take the action again, but it is in 6 second incrementns, not "a full minute".

Further this restriction is in there to prevent exactly this kind of use - doing an action while looking through the familiars eyes.

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You take an action, then til the start of your next turn you do a thing, then you take the action again. You are basically saying you can't study something for a minute, because you happen to blink every six seconds. Also, you can talk as a free action to your familiar, if you want to absolutely get held up on the idea that I said "smell" and that technically only the familiar can smell and not the caster.

But again, what you are essentially saying is that, if a player gets a vision of doom, and they see a symbol wreathed in fire, if the player asks "hey, can I roll religion to identify that symbol?" You are going to tell them that they cannot make that check, because they could not take actions during the vision, and now they aren't actively looking at the symbol. I must be actively, currently, be observing something to actually roll a check to identify it. Meanwhile, IRL, that isn't how anything works. It is a bizarre limitation.