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D&D General The First Demise of TSR: Gygax's Folly


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WG7 Castle Greyhawk is a better adventure than it gets credit for, though it's a terrible "Greyhawk" adventure.
I guess it's a matter of taste, but I find it awful. Not just because it's an insult to the 'real' Castle Greyhawk, and to Gygax, but because the adventures are terribly disconnected, and for the most part are more focused on being dumb jokes than on being actual serviceable adventures.

YMMV, obviously, but I think it's just as bad as its reputation, if not worse.
 


Gary was terrible at business as were the Blumes. That is true. Lorraine Williams only became part of TSR because Gary was in Hollywood trying to get a D&D movie made. He was working with Frank Dillie. Lorraine is Frank’s brother and he introduced Gary to Lorraine. Lorraine did some shady stuff that you fail to mention. She knew the Blumes were unhappy with Gary and went behind his back to force him out. She was not a white knight coming into save the company because she cared. Lorraine had exclusive rights to Buck Rodger’s and was looking to market it because she not TSR would make money from royalties. Your criticism of Gary is spot on but your take on William’s is very biased.
 

Gary was terrible at business as were the Blumes. That is true. Lorraine Williams only became part of TSR because Gary was in Hollywood trying to get a D&D movie made. He was working with Frank Dillie. Lorraine is Frank’s brother and he introduced Gary to Lorraine. Lorraine did some shady stuff that you fail to mention. She knew the Blumes were unhappy with Gary and went behind his back to force him out. She was not a white knight coming into save the company because she cared. Lorraine had exclusive rights to Buck Rodger’s and was looking to market it because she not TSR would make money from royalties. Your criticism of Gary is spot on but your take on William’s is very biased.
I'd say that many would suggest that your take is biased.
 


The funny thing, if we take the entire period with Gygax and Williams, and just say they were both only there to syphon off money...and that TSR was on the edge of bankruptcy and then Williams got there just to siphon off money (that wasn't there)...it turns into an interesting debacle where we have to wonder, how do you squeeze money from a rock??

TSR was highly successful, both under Gygax and Williams. It got into trouble near the end of each of their time at TSR, and that led to an eventual take over by someone else (or sale) and a new edition eventually.

I think Gygax's time led to the game have sales equivalent of close to 100 Million (in todays' dollars, not back then), and Williams also had a high point where it was at 92 million in sales one year, and over 100 million the next (gross, not net, though that still would be close to or over 200 million in today's money).

I'd call that EXTREMELY good success for both of them. Of course, hanging in the background at the time, for both of them, was the mistakes that were ongoing (even driving the seeming illusion of such success as the gross profits above) that were giving an illusion of success, but eroding the foundation even as the roof seemed to be ever rising higher.

Both cases led to a quick and rapid demise in a very short time period, in consideration of the high's that they just had.

That said, D&D has always had this problem to a degree. If you can play with just the PHB, DMG, and MM, that's a one time purchase. How do you continue to make that money after those sales are done?

It's like this past year and past quarter. I expect sales for WotC are doing well, and would have been extremely surprised if they had not been considering that they just released core books and the things they were doing with MtG.

That's not what concerns me. It's what happens next? They have the same problem as D&D always has. How do you keep up the sales after the core books?

They accomplished the unbelievable and 5e just kept on getting bigger and bigger! I don't think that will happen with the anniversary edition (but, I'm willing to be happily surprised). I think they may have a problem. I'm hoping the new Box Set will sell well and make up for any decreases in the next coming quarters, but after that...I don't know.

If I had to bet, I'd say they will start work on a new edition in the next year or two (if they haven't started already, the pattern from the past is pretty clear, every time they've released a revised version of the D&D that came before it...it is around that time they should start looking at starting on the next version...with the only plausible exception to that being 2e IMO...of course).

So, it's just the pattern of D&D hit both of them, though I think Gary realized it at the end (though a little to late for him) and was trying to do something about it.

That said, loved TSR when it was up and running in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. It wasn't just D&D, it was the boardgames and other RPGs. I love Star Frontiers. I even love Lorraine's Buck Rogers....and love the Buck Rogers Board Game!

People hate on her far too much. I get it to a degree (I'm always a Gygax Loyalist...at least thus far), but I think she did some pretty good things and she shouldn't be maligned as much as she is.
 


Your criticism of Gary is spot on but your take on William’s is very biased.
Yeah? Is that your current take, based on the evidence we now have through well researched accounts and histories like Game Wizards, Slaying the Dragon, and When We Were Wizards? From people who were there and from primary source documentation?

Gary and others painted a distinctly biased picture demonizing Williams (and the Blumes) for many years, and now that more of the historical facts are available to the public it seems that while there is plenty of blame to go around for misdeeds, and Williams certainly made some big mistakes, the amount of hate she got in particular over the last forty-ish years was disproportionate.
 
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