D&D (2024) What Should a Psion Be Able To Do?

dave2008 said:

I don't see those as fundamental psion abilities. I think I agree with @Reynard on this one that your just creating a caster with a different name if you include these. I mean fire and ice are not things of the mind (though I do understand how one could justify them to some extent).

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Psychic pyrokenesis is a very significant trope, despite the connection not being very obvious on its surface. But, pyrokenetes are often just pyrokenetes and don’t usually have other psychic abilities. Pyrokenesis also tends to have high associated risks, such as being difficult to control - Pyrokenetic characters typically have sort of the reverse of the usual D&D power advancement structure, where they can’t help but go all-out by default and have to train to limit their own power output for their safety and that of others around them. With such a specific model of psychic fire control powers, I think it would be best handled by a subclass at the very least, or realistically a completely separate class than the base psion, if it’s even to be modeled in 5e at all. Just giving psions access to fire spells wouldn’t feel appropriate to the archetype IMO, and the reverse power scaling aspect makes me lean towards “maybe this isn’t something D&D is built to model at all.”

Ice powers are not something I associate with psychic ability at all. I think it sometimes gets lumped in via association with X-Men and similar super-powered human mutation stories, but is not itself a psychic ability.

As for what should go in the base class. I think telekinesis and telepathy are a given. Some amount of mind control is a natural fit as an extension of telepathy. And, I think precognition and telecognition (e.g. scrying) are common enough to fit within the base class as well. So, a lot of Conjuration, Enchantment, and some Divination. Most Evocation, Abjuration, and Necromancy doesn’t fit IMO.

Biokenesis is a bit odd. I get it with things like enhanced metabolism, or enhancing one’s own sensory abilities, reflexes, etc. It’s all part of the “using 100% of your brain” trope, which despite not really being how brains work, is a prevalent part of psychic lore, and probably worth inclusion. Give the base Psion access to, like, Expeditious Retreat and Enhance Ability and stuff, sure, makes sense. But where it loses me is when it crosses the line into shapeshifting. At that point it no longer feels like a psychic power, it’s just magic by any other name.

I feel similarly about teleportation, but the teleporter, like the pyrokenete, is a common enough archetype of psychic character that it might merit its own subclass. Which the UA did include, to its credit. But I would limit any teleportation spells/abilities to that subclass, personally.

Illusion is another sticky one. Like, it can work as a more powerful expression of “mind tricks,” but… it can easily cross the line from feeling like psychically inducing hallucinations in others, into just projecting holograms, and the latter doesn’t feel psychic to me. I’d be pretty picky about what illusion spells I’d give the base psion access to. Maybe include a more illusion-focused subclass though.

The idea of Psionic disciplines from previous editions of D&D came from the idea of Siddhis and what Yogis were said to be capable of:

• Aṇimā: the ability to reduce one's body to the size of an atom.
• Mahimā: the ability to expand one's body to an infinitely large size.
• Laghimā: the ability to become weightless or lighter than air.
• Garimā: the ability to become heavy or dense.
• Prāpti: the ability to realize whatever one desires.
• Prākāmya: the ability to access any place in the world.
• Īśitva: the ability to control all material elements or natural forces.
• Vaśitva: the ability to force influence upon anyone.

Well not necessarily going to the extremes of becoming the size of an atom or infinitely large. If those mentioned above seem familiar, it's because they're things that influenced what a lot of Psionics did in past editions.

D&D certainly went it's own way diverging from those like adapting general tropes about psychic powers or Victorian pseudoscience that came into the influences in 3e, but I can see how those have influenced Psionics.

Mind of tempest said:

fire psionics is common in media and it reverse could equally work.

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i agree they are popular in media. I said "I" don't see them as fundamental psion abilities. For me it is a bridge to far, but I don't mind if others think differentyl

Reynard said:

My point is, if you let them do everything "psychics" can do in media, they are just wizards. What's the point then?

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The point is to not have to say 'magic' lets you just do things and now we can now add 'psionics'.

Charlaquin said:

Psychic pyrokenesis is a very significant trope, despite the connection not being very obvious on its surface.

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I understand it is a trope and I don't mind other people have pyrokenesis, it is just not what "I" would want. For my it is to far out of the concept and just makes the psion a pyromancer.

On the surface I think something like "shooting fire or ice with their mind" is a sort of hybrid power: a combination of molecular manipulation (speed up molecules to ignite, stop them completely to "freeze") and then telekinesis to "throw them".

That would be my take, and I think an interesting mechanic: you combine two (or more?) psionic powers to create a stronger combined effect.

For example, telepathy and empathy together might allow domination of some sort.

I’m tempted to just go through the full 2024 PHB spell list and make note of which spells I would give the base psion and which spells I would say not at base but maybe from a subclass. But that would have to wait until I get home, and at that point it’s going to be really hard to convince myself to do that instead of playing more Claire Obscure.

Charlaquin said:

I’m tempted to just go through the full 2024 PHB spell list and make note of which spells I would give the base psion and which spells I would say not at base but maybe from a subclass. But that would have to wait until I get home, and at that point it’s going to be really hard to convince myself to do that instead of playing more Claire Obscure.

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It's much more relaxing to do this stuff at work, you know.

Charlaquin said:

I’m tempted to just go through the full 2024 PHB spell list and make note of which spells I would give the base psion and which spells I would say not at base but maybe from a subclass. But that would have to wait until I get home, and at that point it’s going to be really hard to convince myself to do that instead of playing more Claire Obscure.

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I started doing this myself last night, but psionics is so broad that I found my list of psionic or subclass-allowable spells growing too large... which lead me here. Psionics are a very broad concept, so it's understable why people have a hard time agreeing or nailing things down.

Flights of Fancy said:

I started doing this myself last night, but psionics is so broad that I found my list of psionic or subclass-allowable spells growing too large... which lead me here. Psionics are a very broad concept, so it's understable why people have a hard time agreeing or nailing things down.

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What is the true difference between "psionics" and "magic"?