D&D General Lies, Darn Lies, and Statistics: Why DPR Isn't the Stat to Rule them All

Mistwell said:
I disagree with the premise. I watch a lot of optimization videos, and almost all of the major ones shifted away from DPR long ago. They usually value things like battlefield control, buffing, defense, tanking, etc.. about as much as anything else. It's been a very long time in fact since I've seen someone who used DPR as the one stat to rule them all. The will mention it, they will use it, but they will put it into a context of other things you can do well so you can balance DPR with those other things.

In other words, the most successful ones got more tools than just a hammer long ago, and I feel like you're behind the times and using an old sterotype which isn't really very accurate these days.
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This is exactly why DPR or battlefield control or buffing or defense can't be measured. All that happened is people looked deeper into what combat is, noticed other variables, then decided to do the same thing with those as earlier people did with DPR. That's it. That's all they did.

But every time a new class comes out, people start comparing its DPR to other classes. You can take any of those fields, try to apply some calculation, and in the end, it still will not tell you very much, if anything at all.
 

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How do you calculate average value of Encounter/Daily Power for determining damage per round (4e)? When you do not know how many rounds will fight take?
 



One thing I have seen when people talk about DPR is they don't consider damage versatility.

A lot of enemies have damage resistance of some sort, and some have vulnerability or regeneration if not hti with something. Being able to change or choose a specific damage type can really drive up the effectiveness of your damage even if it does not change the dice.

I am playing a Ranger/Warlock right now (currently Fey Wanderer 3/Warlock 2). She is basically a max Charisma Pact of the Blade Ranger. She is outdamaging pretty much everyone even though the Barbarian has Extra attack and everyone else has a feat already.

The reason why is she can use Truestrike and select from Radiant, Psychic, Necrotic, Piercing, Slashing, or Bludgeoning at will and can even get Force on it with a Bonus action (Shillelagh) or with Eldritch Blast. She can get some Fire or Lightning from Blade Cantrips.

Fighting Zombies, Vampire Spawn or Shadows and she is using Radiant, Skeletons and it is Bludgeoing (mostly), Trolls and it is Green Flame Balde, Elementals-Radiant or Psychic usually.
 

ECMO3 said:
This is true, but what you really end up with is an answer or solution dominated by assumptions.
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Sure. There is a tradeoff between minimizing assumptions for a more general purpose solution and how accurate the solution is a reflection of reality.

What I can say is that DPR comparisons are typically directional to actual damage dealt in the long run.
 

ECMO3 said:
One thing I have seen when people talk about DPR is they don't consider damage versatility.

A lot of enemies have damage resistance of some sort, and some have vulnerability or regeneration if not hti with something. Being able to change or choose a specific damage type can really drive up the effectiveness of your damage even if it does not change the dice.

I am playing a Ranger/Warlock right now (currently Fey Wanderer 3/Warlock 2). She is basically a max Charisma Pact of the Blade Ranger. She is outdamaging pretty much everyone even though the Barbarian has Extra attack and everyone else has a feat already.

The reason why is she can use Truestrike and select from Radiant, Psychic, Necrotic, Piercing, Slashing, or Bludgeoning at will and can even get Force on it with a Bonus action (Shillelagh) or with Eldritch Blast. She can get some Fire or Lightning from Blade Cantrips.

Fighting Zombies, Vampire Spawn or Shadows and she is using Radiant, Skeletons and it is Bludgeoing (mostly), Trolls and it is Green Flame Balde, Elementals-Radiant or Psychic usually.
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This. Sorcererous Burst >fire bolt.

Dealing force damage is essentially guaranteed and radiant may as well be.
 


ECMO3 said:
The reason why is she can use Truestrike and select from Radiant, Psychic, Necrotic, Piercing, Slashing, or Bludgeoning at will and can even get Force on it with a Bonus action (Shillelagh) or with Eldritch Blast. She can get some Fire or Lightning from Blade Cantrips.
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What does this have to do with DPR?! My bard, Lucius Flertsalotte, is currently king of DPR. His signature move is to kick open the tavern door and yank off his coif, letting his blond ringlets fall. At the bar he moans, "oh rapture! Oh woe! My sweet Brunhild is fled, ne'er again to be showered by mine song!" Then he plays something like early Ed Sheeran, and gives Bardic Inspiration to the lady (or wench, depending on the tavern) trying the hardest to listen without looking. He gives her a wink as soon as she looks his way, and says something sultry with Message (this is key to DPR, since cantrips are unlimited).

Dames Per Revelry cannot be overhyped.


These guys know the true way to measure a class' lethality: blood sport.
 


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