DLSS 5 will be the worst thing to EVER happen to video games

roger semerad said:

Alright, we now have some official answers to what dlss5 is actually doing and tldr - it's doing exactly what the critics say it's doing. All the claims that it's taking in data from the renderer is just a lie. They're still trying to tapdance around the issue the best they can, but the questions asked here don't give them the wriggle room that their marketing speech has. By all means watch the video and read the officail responses yourself if you think I'm over reacting. If you like dlss5 fine, but don't try to gaslight others into believing it has anything to do with artistic intent, or that developers have control over the output.

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What Nvidia told the YouTuber about frames is on their own website. It’s not new info.

The AI model is trained end to end to understand complex scene semantics such as characters, hair, fabric and translucent skin, along with environmental lighting conditions like front-lit, back-lit or overcast — all by analyzing a single frame. DLSS 5 then uses its deep understanding to generate visually precise images that handle complex elements such as subsurface scattering on skin, the delicate sheen of fabric and light-material interactions on hair, all while retaining the structure and semantics of the original scene.

DLSS 5 provides game developers with detailed controls for intensity, color grading and masking, so artists can determine where and how enhancements are applied to maintain each game’s unique aesthetic. Integration is seamless, using the same NVIDIA Streamline framework used by existing DLSS and NVIDIA Reflex technologies.

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Plus, the YouTuber kept saying “unless I’m misreading this,” and I think he is. I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding going on about cosmetics here.

He showed the same image comparison I posted earlier, not the one that’s in the OP. He kept asking “how do we ask DLSS to remove the makeup it applied?” Thing is, it didn’t apply makeup that wasn’t in the original image.

In the original shot, Grace’s eyes are rimmed with black eyeliner both around the eyes and inside the rims. That is the original artistic intent, and the second shot keeps it.

What the second image doesn’t do is add blush and lipstick that did not exist in the first image. What it does is change her pallor, and even then, only slightly. Note I am not talking about skin tone. Grace simply looks a bit more human.

If the complaints were that Grace needs to look less hale for artistic reasons, then I’d understand better where they’re coming from. I also think it is something that can be corrected on the developer end.

However, the YouTuber claims she looks dressed up for a night out with a full face, which puts me in fact-checking mode once again. Is it because cream blush looks so subtle these days people can’t tell the difference between it vs natural skin coloration?

My take: it’s not the worst thing ever. It’s a tool, and yes, it can be misused.

There’s an iconic jazz piece called “Take 5”, one of the more important and popular jazz tunes written in 5/4 time.

But a couple decades ago, someone covered it in 4/4 time. To me- and to a lot of musicians I know, the life got sucked out of the tune. One jazz pianist I know played the song transcribed into 3/4, 6/4, and even 7/4 time- essentially demonstrating how 4/4 was about the worst time signatures you cold play the song in. Still, it as a minor hit for the performers who made that recording. For their fans, it was good.

Tea Cozy said:

What Nvidia told the YouTuber about frames is on their own website, it’s not new info.

NVIDIA DLSS 5 Delivers AI-Powered Breakthrough In Visual Fidelity For Games

NVIDIA DLSS 5 infuses pixels with photorealistic lighting and materials to bridge the gap between rendering and reality.

www.nvidia.com

Plus, the YouTuber kept saying “unless I’m misreading this,” and I think he is. I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding going on about cosmetics here.

He showed the same image comparison I posted earlier, not the one that’s in the OP. He kept asking “how do we ask DLSS to remove the makeup it applied?” Thing is, it didn’t apply makeup that wasn’t in the original image.

In the original shot, Grace’s eyes are rimmed with black eyeliner both around the eyes and inside the rims. That is the original artistic intent, and the second shot keeps it.

What the second image doesn’t do is add blush and lipstick that did not exist in the first image. What it does it change her pallor, and even then, only slightly. Note I am not talking about skin tone.

If the complaints were that Grace needs to look less hale for artistic reasons, then I’d understand better where they’re coming from. I also think it is something that can be corrected on the developer end.

However, the YouTuber claims she looks dressed up for a night out with a full face, which puts me in fact-checking mode once again. Is it because cream blush looks so subtle these days people can’t tell the difference between it vs natural skin coloration?

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I found over the years that I am really bad at identifying make-up, and that I am not alone. "You look good even without make-up" is a compliment mistakenly made towards people that are using make-up (and, I learned, also not neccessarily hat big of a compliment as some think: Some people are naturally good-looking without make-up, while good make-up actually often requires personal thought and effort.)

Gradine said:

Specifically, it is using generative AI [...] to erase and replace the work of real human artists (which is the specific issue with DLSS 5).

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Well, hang on here. If the artists (or their studios) choose to use/enable this feature of DLSS 5, are they erasing their own work? Is this the objection, that such an output is considered unauthentic, and if so, whose authenticity are we talking about?

bsss said:

Well, hang on here. If the artists (or their studios) choose to use/enable this feature of DLSS 5, are they erasing their own work? Is this the objection, that such an output is considered unauthentic, and if so, whose authenticity are we talking about?

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Except, generally speaking, it's not the devs who are getting to make this decision, it's the suits in the boardroom.

Gradine said:

Except, generally speaking, it's not the devs who are getting to make this decision, it's the suits in the boardroom.

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This. Corporate sees a new way to cut expenses and makes games cheaper slop.

Belen said:

This. Corporate sees a new way to cut expenses and makes games cheaper slop.

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So it's not about the authenticity of the creative vision, but that the games you want to play are owned by corporations, and those executives are motivated by money? And now DLSS 5 allows them --- dwarfing consideration of any other executive decisions they could make and that are made every day right now --- to make a product you don't want to play?

Mustrum_Ridcully said:

I found over the years that I am really bad at identifying make-up, and that I am not alone. "You look good even without make-up" is a compliment mistakenly made towards people that are using make-up (and, I learned, also not neccessarily hat big of a compliment as some think: Some people are naturally good-looking without make-up, while good make-up actually often requires personal thought and effort.)

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It’s funny how much time and actual product can go into a no-makeup makeup look. But many products these days are much lighter and blendable than in times gone by. Skin really comes out. I was amazed at a blush stick I bought last year. It really just looked like my skin.

trappedslider said:

me over here downloading mods so that bethesda's npcs look better

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I did that for Oblivion: Remastered. A portion of the elves look very strange, so I downloaded a couple of mods that fix a lot of Altmer and Dunmer NPCs. A comment jokingly called one of them “tasteful yassification.” They don’t make the NPCs more glamorous, just less grotesque.

I don’t know whether the odd appearance is a deliberate choice or a consequence of porting the original.

Tea Cozy said:

I did that for Oblivion: Remastered. A portion of the elves look very strange, so I downloaded a couple of mods that fix a lot of Altmer and Dunmer NPCs. A comment jokingly called one of them “tasteful yassification.” They don’t make the NPCs more glamorous, just less grotesque.

I don’t know whether the odd appearance is a deliberate choice or a consequence of porting the original.

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the CE and CE 2 are great at some things and not great at others, faces/bodies being one the things it's not great at no matter what game it is. Hopefully CE3 for TES6 works on that.