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make a god #1 > you have to decide a few things about how Gods work in your world. A> Do gods ultimately get thier power from worship of thier followers? Yes > If so then once he has enough worshipers ... and has enough power in his portfolio like Epic Level then he gets devine...

sorry should have been more clear... was refering to the one attribute dump is higher than money can go... but you are right better attributes can be bought by lv 20 with magic and standard wealth.... but with the other bonuses... I would have to put tihs Forsaker build on par with the money /...

Yes... When you get enough money you can buy the bonouses that the forsaker gets from the forsaker class as Three_Haligonians pointed out.... you can buy +5 Book +6 Item for +11 compaired to the +10 of the forsaker ... either gets the +5 from Levels by 20th.... Forsaker doesn't go down in...

1 more thing forgot to include this before but was figureing a good class for the vow of poverty forsaker before and after forsaker class would be would be monk and then monk pretige class. my 2 bits

had a idea As Level goes up normally the character's wealth eventually becomes more useful than the forsaker's abilities... yes his abilities are still nice but at a sertain point equal abilities can be bought and not have to give up magic.... Previously I think we figured this point to be...

Sr master's of Wild ... the foe hunter class get's SR ... don't remember off hand if it stacks or not.... usually the general rule is that they don't stack for SR.... the one exception that I know .... that specificly says it will stack with all other SR is the forsaker class from MOW ...

VERY Long post... Be warned... Fine This will include a post with a 100% core book 3.5 Monk Lv20 no special gear straight up. I have... and have been acused of nto being able to do the math.. so bellow look at the example and please point out to me the fundamental thing I am missing or...

Wasn't going to post it here .. but sinse you make it an issue here.... My first post about the monk on the too-powerful thread. as it turns out divine power magic item would be even cheaper and do the same for the monk.... and this item as expensive as it is ... is not expensive at all...

I posted on that thread how a fighter can be better and where he falls behind in grappling... I also Posted how the extra str from the barbarian's rage gives him an edge over other types of grapplers.... I never said the grappler was the best build for all senarios.... which is what people...

SR doesn't help one iota... have you seen the number of spells that will be negated by SR??? I never said it negated all spells... of course it doesn't stop buffs .. healing ... ect... but it does make him immune to many .. many other things..... A SR of 42 by Lv 10 is a VERY powerful...

this is true.... but even warrior faiths... Go to Heaven for smiting Evil and being a great warrior in battle types .... Even these faiths Those who worshiped God's of War etc... ... have religious rites and beleifs .... practices and policies... and holy men who are expected to perform sertain...

.... the grapple fighter will have +3 Better Grapple but do d4+9 instead of d10+9. and the fighter has to get closer first. If the fighter is not going for grapple but instead out of the 49,000 GP of the example buys +1 or +2 weapons and armor he will have a better to hit and better AC but will...

well... it is good you know your proper place :p but of course more stuff won't help either... everyone has there place :lol: Fighter , Palladin , Barbarian up front Rogue , Monk flanking Druid , Cleric Second Line Support Wizard , Sorcerer glass cannon's in the back. now accept your...

Without 36,000 spent on belt of Giant Strength... he loses +6 to Strength... the monk can get the same feats to help... Without the Belt using up the vast chunk of money instead of buying +1 or +2 weapons and armor... the Fighter is 6 lower in Str.... -3 to Grapple cancels his +3 from Base...

agreed that for the value of thier abilities there are better options.... also agreed that magic buying definately allows for more control over use of value.... agreed that single item negation for d4 melees is not often effective against larger groups or groups with tons of magic item...

I agree.... a Fighter who gave up armor and weapons and went with a grapple build could be +3 Grapple better but would only do d4+9 istead of Monk's d10+9.... of couse a barbarian build would be better yet with Rage adding to Str for Grapple..... the point is that the monk is capable of...

yes I have actually and they changed very little about this aspect they changed more about ability bonouses and skill bonuses. not that it matters... Clerics are weak as kittens.... face it the other players are holding your hand and keeping you live.

and you are entitled... but i dont' have to agree and i don't... selfless does not keep the weapons and armor that help.. it gives them up to benifit others... selfish... on the other hand does... also by the reactions off sooo many people... it is very clear that the thread never should have...

so now the cleric and fighter are takign on the lone monk??? also the spring attacking monk on the same build will prevent the fighter from getting any hits.

now please excuse the crudity of a few minute character... but .... Fine... first the power of the monk as i have tried to say is not that he always beats everyone at everything but that a monk can multi-task well or can specialize in several ways to beat other classes... the class gives far...