D&D 4E 10 Things I Like in 4e

[EricNoah]

1- No more iterative attacks
2- Reach and AoO lessened, occur much less frequently
3- At-will/encounter/dailies
4- Races mad more significant with more useful/defined abilities
5- No more gnomes (at least in first PHB)
6- No more Druids (at least in first PHB)
7- Ranger actually a viable choice on it's own
8- Less reliance on magic items for character abilities/survivability
9- Easy to use monsters
10- Back to basics XP calculation

Oh, cool, you gave me 3 more ideas for my list -- thanks!

 

[EATherrian]

I was going to post this in the Oakhurst thread but I didn't want it to get lost. So, here are some quick thoughts on what I like about 4e:

1. Healing Surges. Great idea, a little wonky in the fan made PHB, but the concept is very cool. I like healing being in the hands of the character. More healing during an encounter would make them even cooler, but I suspect the full rules will have something about that.

This one I like, it allows the characters to survive more which is always good, unless they become nigh unkillable.

2. Minions and Mobs: I love, love, love mook rules. The minion rules are very cool, and I like how the waves come out without overpowering PC's.

This look good so far but until I actual get some play in I can't judge.

3. New CR system: I don't know the real name, but I love how easy it is to throw an encounter together. PC's are worth Y experience points, monsters are equal to that number. Nice, simple, easy.

I do like the return to real numbers. The CR thing was too esoteric for me.

4. Hearty PCs: I like how sturdy 1st level PCs are.

Not a big fan of this. I want the PCs to become heroes not start as heroes. Heck I'm a fan of starting at 0-level.

5. Saving Throws: Not having to track durations is cool. I'm not 100% sold on the roll 10 or higher bit, (does a 1st level spell have the same save for both a 20th level and 1st level character? I have no idea but I hope not.) but I like how clean and simple it is.

Well, you have to keep track each round you don't make the roll, and there could conceivable me several tracks going on, but in theory I agree with you here.

6. A cool basic attack: Eldritch blast, Lance of Faith, Cleave, etc. are cool abilities. I'm not a fan of At Will/Encounter/Daily, but I like the underlying idea.

But I think these are going to become just as boring, more colorful sure, as the standard attacks were. In fact that's what they seem to me since they replace the standard attack they become the standard attack.

7. 1-1-1 Movement: It's Faaaabbuuulous!

Channeling Morbo here: "Geometry doesn't work that way!"

8. Monster Recharge Powers: It's simple and it works. It's part of the less tracking is good bit.

Another I need to play to see how it works, but in theory it looks good. A good counterpoint to healing surges in fact.

9. Bloodied Abilities: It's a neat idea, especially with the black dragon breath weapon. It's flavorful and simple, two cool things.

This is something I really do like.

10. Racial abilities: Not really part of the playtest, but I like the idea of ditching ECL and replacing it with a racial ability every X levels.

Depends on how they're done. I'm waiting to see more on this. I am worried that we'll get power overload though.

Now... None of this would be hard to port into 3.x, and probably help it significantly. Anyway, just some thoughts.

Hyrum.

 

[EATherrian]

I'd argue that the best thing is left out of your list - Game balance around the encounter as the primary metric, as opposed to the day.

NinjEdit: that said, I do like your list very much. It neatly encapsulates a lot of my favorite things about 4E.

Actually that's one of the things that I most don't like. I'm hoping there's some way to avoid it. I think that's the main thing that brings up allusions of boardgames or more truthfully wargames.

 

[EATherrian]

What, just 10?

I don't think the message boards are big enough for your list.

 

[Goobermunch]

Tactics tactics tactics!
I love that they're consciously defining roles in combat and building abilities around that.
I also really like movement-heavy combat. Stock still fistfights are boring.

One aspect of that which I've encountered is with the Warlock. I find myself moving three squares every round just so I can keep myself concealed with Shadow Walk. At the same time, I'm always trying to keep myself close to the enemies to maintain the Prime Shot bonus.

--G

 

[EATherrian]

No one in either of my playtests, including me as the DM, had any difficulty keeping track of those micromanagment issues you mentioned and none of the players(none of whom visit this board) even mentioned it - they just kept track of what they had marked/buffed(usually never more than 1 or 2 things) and let other players know when asked. Maybe it's just 1st level, but even without marking it, I could remember pretty much all of it even in fights with a dozen enemies...

Have you playtested it? I did before I had read any posts on the difficulty of keeping track of all that stuff and still find it surprising when I see it come up.

That's what I like to hear. I'm getting my old group together for a play test sometime next month so I'm hoping we enjoy it. I'm one of those crazy people who plans to go to 4E and to Pathfinder. I need a better job.

 

[GoLu]

6- No more Druids (at least in first PHB)

I have a friend whose single biggest complaint about fourth edition is that there aren't any druids. Clerics of nature gods are not good enough. I'm not entirely sure why, although I suspect it's a mix between the lack of shapechanging and the fact that their character sheet doesn't say "druid" on it.

His second complaint is that he now has to buy all the books all over again, which I'd be more sympathetic with if he ever actually bought any of the core third edition books.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Good idea for a thread, I hope we can keep it pretty positive in here.

1. Fixing The Math. Finally, the underlying reason why high-level play has been wonky at best, even in the edition that has done it best (3e), is addressed. No longer to you have to render one character uneffective to challenge another!

2. Monster Hierarchy. Minions, mobs, solos, elites...tremendous.

3. Flattening The Level Curve. Making 1st level PC's able to stand on their own two feet, and making 30th level PC's that are epic, but not unbearable twink machines.

4. Bloodied. A status between Alive and Dead? Brilliant. And fits FFZ's Limits system like a glove.

5. No more iteritive attacks. Oh, JOY, the flurry of whiffs is gone!

6. Less Christmas Tree. I like power to be more personal and less possession (though possession, in D&D, should still be pretty important).

7. Races affecting you at all levels. I want my dwarf fighters to be different from my half-orc fighters at 30th level.

8. Keeping, but de-emphasising, per-day abilities. Resource management is cool and all, but I want to be able to contribute something every round.

9. Defined tiers. D&D has always changed as you level up, it's good to see those specifically called out and catered to, it'll make the changes stronger.

10. Healing Surges. It's golden to not have to require a healer in the party.

Honorable Mention: D&D Insider

It's still to early to see it's promise yet, but this could be the biggest reason I play 4e. All the rules, I don't need the book, and I can play with my friends from out-of-the-state? I am tempted, sorely tempted, to love it.

 

[Fobok]

1. D&D Insider.

2. Improvements in encounter building.

3. New 1/1/1 movement.

4. Extended 'sweet spot', if it lives up to it.

5. racial feats

6. No more save-or-die.

7. Improved level 1's

8. at will/per encounter abilities

9. Dragonborn

10. 'Powers' for everybody.

 

[Cadfan]

1. Per encounter game balance gives me flexibility in adventure design. No more plot-unnecessary fights to attrition resources.

2. Underlying mathematical fixes. Fixed rate progressions that don't diverge keeps everything much cleaner.

3. Powers give greater depth to character classes. After Tome of Battle I can't see going back to regular melee combatants. Just can't.

4. Easier to design/run monsters.

5. Mook rules. Didn't think I'd like these, but then I thought about it a bit more in depth.

6. Skill system fixes. No more tidiot-savant PCs who can't swim or ride a horse, thus preventing me from making scenarios that involve swimming or horse riding.

7. Rebalancing of magic and melee.

8. Elimination/ restriction of save-or-die, generally making combat less "swingy."

9. Fewer magic items. There's still a lot of them, but fewer is best.

10. Fixing the glut that surrounded the rules for immediate, free, swift, etc actions.

And the thing I NEVER expected to get,

11. First level characters have enough depth to actually make me want to stick around first level for a while and enjoy the scenery. I've always hated low levels because 1) you die really fast, and 2) you can't DO anything. I've been starting campaigns at 2nd level or higher ever since my old Rules Cyclopedia games. The pregen characters look interesting enough that I won't do that in 4e. I never expected this to happen.