14 year old girl wants to join my game

[cougent]

Maybe it's a difference in state. In MA, anyone under 18 is pretty much legally a minor. Maybe a 17-year-old might get away with things, but a 16-year-old is definitely a minor. You have to be 17 to drive without an adult, for instance. (Maybe even 18, I can't recall off-hand.)

Plus, like I said, I actually *remember* being a teenager. And once you get to high school (13-14), while there are some maturity differences between the years, there really isn't anything I can think of that I'd be OK with the average 17-year-old doing that I wouldn't also be OK with the average 14-year-old high schooler doing. It's not until you hit graduated-and-gone-to-college that there's another significant maturity swing, from my observations and memories.

Peace & Luv, Liz

Not sure how your school systems are arranged but in Texas, the average 14 year old is in 9th grade. In some instances that is High School, but more and more school districts here are now splitting into a 4 tier system with either just 11th and 12th grades as High School or 10th through 12th. 9th grade is being reclassified into another category of either 8th and 9th or 8th - 10th.

The statement equating 14 and 17 as equals...wow, shocking and disturbing. And after you just chided Mieric for making blanket statements. Can't speak on the driving issue, but your state law makers do see a significant distinction in pre and post 16 year olds as that is the age of consent, and lets be honest that is the underlying whispered fear that we are all dancing around. (http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm) A 17 year old wanting to join a game IS a different thing than a 14 year old wanting to join the same game. You even admit there are maturity differences, it is those differences that affect judgment and actions, and it is that judgment and actions that have consequences that may be far reaching. What a 14 year old may consider a harmless prank a 17 year old is more apt to realize is something serious. Age doesn't guarantee maturity, but it is a big factor. There are far more immature 14 year olds than immature 17 year olds.

 

[Thurbane]

double up

...

 

[Thurbane]

In my experience... no, it really wasn't when I was that age. A difference? Yes. A large one? No.

"Large" is hard to quantify. You and I obviously have different interpretations. We could argue that back and forth forever. Let's just say that with myself and my friends, it was a large and observable difference. I went out and started working at 16, but most of my friends went through university. All of us matured significantly, regardless.

Honest answer? Yes, I do. There are a lot of teens who sneak cigarettes and alcohol behind their parents' backs. And because they're sneaking it, they're far less likely to drink responsibly or be fully aware of the consequences of what they're doing. If a teen is mature enough to understand of the consequences of what they're putting in their bodies, then it's their right to choose to do it anyway, just like it's an adult's right if they choose to be dumb. Besides, quite frankly, I've known legal-age folks who should never be allowed near alcohol.

Wow...just, wow. Then...marijuana? Heroin? Cocaine? Would you have a 10 year old kid jump behind the wheel of a high powered sports-car? A 6 year old own a high powered semi-auto rifle? For that matter, would you let a hypothetical 14 year old chose to have sexual relations with a 40 year old if both were consenting?

You see a young child about to eat from a box of rat poison...do you snatch it out of his hands quickly to protect him, or do you sit there, explain the dangers of rat posion, and let him make his own decision?

Part of letting "children be children" is that we as adults (and especially their parents) have an onus to "protect them, even if it's from themselves". If this means that they miss out on the occasional experience, I consider it a price well worth paying.

Considering that all the kids I've personally known who suffered abuse suffered it at the hands of classmates, family, other household members, or family friends (and as others have stated, that's statistically far more likely) I'd say that being paranoid about strangers wouldn't have helped any of them.

Peace & Luv, Liz

Ah, but once they have gamed together for a while, they're not strangers any more, yes?

------------------------

I'll give you an excellent example from my own childhood. We had a music teacher who liked to take away small groups of 4 or 5 boys from school on private campaign trips. I asked my grandparents (who I was raised by) if I could go, and they said "No way!". I was all pissy, not getting to hang out with my friends and go camping.

...anyway, a while after the camping trip, all sorts of horrible stories of sexual misconduct and borderline molestation started to surface. I am so freakin' thankful I was told "No" I can't even begin to tell you.

 

[Jeysie]

Just curious, you keep reiterating this - are you assuming the rest of us don't remember our teenage years?

Considering some of the answers here, yes, I do. For instance:

The statement equating 14 and 17 as equals...wow, shocking and disturbing.

No, I said that while there are differences, I can't think of anything where I'd be willing to blanket say that a 17 year old can do while a 14 year old can't. I watched R-rated movies at 14 and didn't have my brain rotted. Most of my friends at that age already knew about pregnancy and STDs, how to use condoms and birth control, and the consequences of having sex. I've had a commercial job in some form since I was 15, earning a paycheck and paying taxes, but wasn't allowed for another three years to vote where the taxes go. Personally I think the driving age should be 18, since by then your body and physical control is likely to be pretty much completely formed. (Actually, I'd say it'd be more like 21, but with the way society is set up it's hard to do without a car once you're ready to shlep off to college.)

Anyway, I give up. Seriously. I obviously had a way, way different childhood experience than most of the people in this thread.

Peace & Luv, Liz

 

[cougent]

Considering that all the kids I've personally known who suffered abuse suffered it at the hands of classmates, family, other household members, or family friends (and as others have stated, that's statistically far more likely) I'd say that being paranoid about strangers wouldn't have helped any of them.

Peace & Luv, Liz

The only case of actual abuse I know of was of some family friends grandson, a 14 year old boy who was accused of sexual assault by a 14 year old girl. Despite him having an alibi, he was arrested and put in juvenile detention where he was assaulted by several 17 year old boys. After a year long court battle and $70,000 in legal fees it was finally discovered that the girl made a false allegation because she liked him and he didn't like her. The DA simply dropped the charges and refused to prosecute her for the false allegation. So he got a juvenile record and gang raped because a 14 year old girl decided to pull a prank.

I am not discounting your life experiences, but to assume that your experience is the norm or the majority is very short sighted. There are monsters out there, they are around every corner, and some of them are 14 year old girls. Inviting the possibility of that kind of firestorm into ones own house is just short of insane.

 

[cougent]

Considering some of the answers here, yes, I do. For instance:

There is an old joke:
At 18 my parents were the stupidest people on the planet, but by the time I turned 21 they sure had learned a lot!

I remember my teenage years, and would be happy to trade horror stories with you, and I am sure mine are worse, but I learned from them and moved on to become an adult and not think like a teenager any longer.

 

[Thurbane]

14 vs 17

http://www.nap.edu/netsafekids/protect_und.html

Early Adolescence: 13 to 15 Years

* Abstract cognitive skills similar to those of adults are in place, although the skill set is not fully developed.

* Decision-making and reasoning skills are better developed than in preadolescence, but the child is often swayed by impulse. A child’s faith in his or her own decision-making skills—especially in the face of parental positions—might exceed the child’s actual skill.

* Puberty brings a growing awareness of sexual development and great curiosity about the child's own sexuality. Some children become sexually active with intercourse; most have some kind of sexual experience, such as kissing.

* Information needs are broader and relate to the world at large, so the availability of some external information source is important.


Late Adolescence: 16 to 18 Years

* The young person is highly aware of sexual issues and might well be sexually active (eighty percent have intercourse by age 20; the mean age of first intercourse is currently about 17.5 years.)

* Decision-making and reasoning skills are better than in early adolescence.

* The person is physically and cognitively mature.

* Legal rights are approaching those of adults, although rights can vary by state.

* Historically, many people were married and having children at this age.

* Information needs are extensive in scope and depth and often require access to a wide range of resources beyond the immediate environment.

 

[Nifft]

* The young person is highly aware of sexual issues and might well be sexually active (eighty percent have intercourse by age 20; the mean age of first intercourse is currently about 17.5 years.)

"Currently" as of when? I've heard other numbers.

Thanks, -- N

 

[Harmon]

I'm 27, myself. Not at all old enough to say that I grew up "in a different time"...

You were born about the year I started gaming lots has changed from my birth to yours to and through until now.

But I agree the world is brutal. I've known kids who've gotten abused before, including kids in foster homes. One even ran away because of it. Was it the adults abusing them?

I could name eight people in just seconds that I know that have been abused or otherwise treated poorly, and most of them women, and most of them by people that their families trusted.

No, in every case it was the other kids their age or slightly older in the foster home with them. You could fault the adults for not stopping the abuse, but they weren't the ones doing it.

Different experiences. :\

Other children were/are pretty nasty (being forced to sleep on a stone floor by my cousin comes to mind), but the trust of adults I think is what this is all about.

Personally, I'm more afraid of the young 'uns and people my age than I am people older than me, and the same was true when I was a teen, too. I'd be far more wary of bullies or possible young hooligans my kid might be hanging out with than her associating with mature adults who are more likely to be responsible.

Responsible adults are more common then responsible kids, so I agree with you there.

Peace & Luv, Liz

You stole my line. Oh, and back at you

I disagree. The Predators haven't changed. But our awareness and perception of them changed.
Today's Media ensures that we know a lot more about the bad things that happen in this world.
The bad thing is that so many cases of abuses weren't noticed before, because people weren't aware of the dangers.
We shouldn't be over-protective, but we need to stay careful. If in doubt, favor the side of protection and care. But if possible, try to eliminate the doubt. Inform yourself.

I think that the predators have more awareness that "there are others out there like me, and so it must be okay." The world is a smaller place (instant round the world news, WWW, etc) now and these "people" are finding education in that size change in their desired.... desires.

You are quite right in the over protectiveness of this world and that we need to stay careful.

 

[Jack99]

"Currently" as of when? I've heard other numbers.

Thanks, -- N

My guess is that it is probably lower. Over here, meaning in my country, in an 8th grade (13-14 y/o) you will have roughly 20% who have had sex, going up to 32% in 9th grade (14-15 y/o). Average age for the first time is about 16 (16,3 i think, but I haven't looked at the figures for a year or so).

On the other hand, we have a lower "cap" (15 y) than most other countries in the western world, which arguably could account for it.