14 year old girl wants to join my game

[Nifft]

Hey, here's an idea: film the games. Get some hidden cameras and film the games. The films don't have to be particularly high quality to prove you aren't having sex.

Hmm, maybe also get one good camera and film the battlemat, plus record conversation. This could be very helpful when you're setting it up again next week! Ah, the joy of a more transparent society. If you must be under surveillance, you should be able to derive some benefit from it.

It'll probably be useful when you go to write your story hour, too.

Cheers, -- N

 

[wingsandsword]

Why are accusations of misconduct so fearful?

Because this culture believes that trying to protect every child is worth mistakenly ruining some adults.​

The situation is a result of a cultural choice to fiercely protect children. Even though I have to be very aware of what I do when I interact with the high schoolers I coach, I think it's the right choice for society to make. Your tears for me are unwelcome.

Wow, just wow.

You admit that some adults will have their lives ruined by mistake; people who have done nothing wrong will be accused of child molestation, possible tried and convicted of felony charges and quite possibly serve prison time and end up as registered sex offenders and pariahs unable to live and work in most civilized places because of exclusion zone rules, all to "fiercely protect" children. What ratio is acceptable? Is 10 innocent people convicted of child molestation and imprisoned thanks to paranoia worth preventing one child from being molested? When is it too much, or is it worth ruining thousands of adult lives just to prevent one child from being harmed?

Even while the vast majority of child molestation occurs not from some stranger or new person they met on the internet, but from their parents, or a family member, or some close friend of the family that has easy access to the child and plenty of trust from the parents.

I find your perspective baffling, and your disregard for protecting the innocent (as in people who haven't committed crimes) frightening.

 

[Jeysie]

After past bad experiences of our entire gaming group being blackmailed by one of our members ex-girlfriends, we didn't invite any women to participate in our gaming group for a couple of years. (Long story short - they broke up and she wanted him out of the group and tried to blackmail us into that after we refused).

So, you know one bad woman, and you assume all women are like that? Nice. I've known women who's bad ex-boyfriends have tried to tarnish their reputations in similar fashions. It's not the gender, male or female, that's the problem, it's a specific person being a <censored>.

Peace & Luv, Liz

 

[Mieric]

So, you know one bad woman, and you assume all women are like that? Nice. I've known women who's bad ex-boyfriends have tried to tarnish their reputations in similar fashions. It's not the gender, male or female, that's the problem, it's a specific person being a <censored>.

Peace & Luv, Liz

Where the #$^#$% did I say that all women are like that?

The only reason we excluded women from our gaming group was to limit our exposure false allegations and blackmail in this "he said, she said" society of ours. When allegations of rape and abuse often devolve into nothing more than "he said, she said" and people (at least around here) are more willing to believe woman and children in this type of situation... what the hell do you want us to do?

I was present when my best friends wife lay down in the middle of the road and a car ran over her legs. After the ambulance and police arrived my best friend was arrested even after they questioned several eye witnesses - all because she claimed "he pushed me", never mind the fact that several people told the police that the freakin idiot did it herself.

That I have to go to such lengths to feel secure in dealing with people in my own house.... pisses me the hell off, but at least I'm safer from false allegations than I would be without it.

Edit: Where I live, men are inherently more vulnerable to criminal charges due to false allegations than women - if protecting ourselves comes across as "viewing all women as conniving #$^@^" then so be it.

 

[cougent]

I was referring to the comment someone made about the 40-year-old wanting to join "a group of legal adults", since they're not a group of all legal adults. I was also referring to the people who can't seem to consistently decide whether it is or isn't weird for adults and teenagers to want to game together.

The 40 year old guy (adult) was trying to join a group of 16 (legal to drive, otherwise still a minor), 17 (quasi-legal in some states for certain things, minor for voting and alcohol), 19 (adult, except for alcohol), and a 20 year old (adult, except for alcohol). The guy wanting to join is accepting potential liability for his and their actions, creepy or not.

The 14 year old girl (minor) is trying to join a group of all adults. Forget the OP for a moment, if I were a member of his group I would not want him to place this potential liability on me by admitting her. The very accusation of wrong doing will damage all of them, not just the teacher.

This is an apples to oranges comparison.

If you personally don't let *any* teenagers into your group because you prefer gamers your own age, that's fine.

The only problem with the term "teenagers" is that it spans both legally responsible and non-legally responsible at the same time. 18 is an absolutely safe number for anyone. In my state 17 is also because they are considered legally responsible even though they can't yet vote. 16 might even be acceptable due to them being able to drive themselves to the game, probably defeats any coercion argument. But 14 is out of the question.

So in the name of safety, we have a society where children are mollycoddled from learning how to make their own choices/mistakes and handle consequences, are emotionally isolated from non-family adults, and where it's so easy to slander someone who did nothing wrong that we have to live in fear of doing what should be perfectly legal and innocent actions because it might "look bad".

*I* shed tears for that.

Peace & Luv, Liz

Yes, we do. It is sad, but it is a reality. It's called Political Correctness.

 

[ragboy]

My youngest child is a 4 year old girl and she already can't wait to 'do gaming' with us.

I've played with my four kids as they reach that 10-11 year old range where they can understand enough of the rules to enjoy the game. My 6-year old plays occasionally, but he runs the "animals:" Animal companions, familiars, etc. The great thing is that he's _very_ good at it and adds a whole new dimension to the game. He's much more into whatever animal he's running than most role-players I've played with. Of course, he has the attention span of a gnat, so he's usually at the table about 10 minutes total in a given session, but it's way too entertaining to exclude him.

We were in an intense RP scene with an NPC and he took over the negotiations as the pseudo-dragon he was playing. He kept reminding me that he was telling the guy something "with his _mind_!"

Anyway, you have to be ready to deal with boredom and a certain amount of "table talk," as well as streamlining rules (none of them are adept enough to play spellcasters yet), but I've found it highly rewarding to play RPG's with kids.

As far as the problem at hand, sounds like it was solved, and my own policy is not to have any kids play with us that either don't already play with their parents or family. And never with other adults, with the exception of my wife.

 

[Jeysie]

Where the #$^#$% did I say that all women are like that?

If you didn't hold that assumption, why would you prohibit *all* women from your group instead of specific individuals you find dubious?

what the hell do you want us to do?

Judge everyone on an individual basis, not on blanket terms of gender or other factors.

Again, I've known situations where people were willing to believe the guy spewing slander instead of the girl. Heck, I've known girls who have managed to ruin the reps of other girls, and guys who have ruined the reps of other guys. Some people are just utter slimeballs, and gender (or other general factors) makes no difference or sweeping safe mark.

The only problem with the term "teenagers" is that it spans both legally responsible and non-legally responsible at the same time.

Maybe it's a difference in state. In MA, anyone under 18 is pretty much legally a minor. Maybe a 17-year-old might get away with things, but a 16-year-old is definitely a minor. You have to be 17 to drive without an adult, for instance. (Maybe even 18, I can't recall off-hand.)

Plus, like I said, I actually *remember* being a teenager. And once you get to high school (13-14), while there are some maturity differences between the years, there really isn't anything I can think of that I'd be OK with the average 17-year-old doing that I wouldn't also be OK with the average 14-year-old high schooler doing. It's not until you hit graduated-and-gone-to-college that there's another significant maturity swing, from my observations and memories.

Peace & Luv, Liz

 

[ruleslawyer]

I just think it'd be awkward.

My g/f has a large family with many cousins in the teenage age range, and I do a ton of things with them (ski, play video games, play music, etc.), but it still feels like "playing with the kids." It works because the adults are generally outnumbered. It would feel tremendously odd to have one of them sit in on our gaming group (20s to 30s, age-wise). College seems to really effect a change in that dynamic; the one cousin I've known during his transition from high school to college is someone that I'd feel fine inviting to join us... but he's 20 now.

 

[Mieric]

If you didn't hold that assumption, why would you prohibit *all* women from your group instead of specific individuals you find dubious?

Because that experience made me freakin paranoid.

Again, I've known situations where people were willing to believe the guy spewing slander instead of the girl. Heck, I've known girls who have managed to ruin the reps of other girls, and guys who have ruined the reps of other guys. Some people are just utter slimeballs, and gender (or other general factors) makes no difference or sweeping safe mark.

While slander and a ruined reputation can be serious things .... POSSIBLE CRIMINAL CHARGES, JAIL TIME, AND BEING LISTED IN THE SEX OFFENDER REGISTRY are on a whole different level of seriousness.

Not to mention the cost involved in fighting any charges resulting from the allegations.

While your philosophy of "Judge everyone on an individual basis, not on blanket terms of gender or other factors" would be nice in a utopia - I can't help but view it as impractical and unrealistic given the events I've both lived through and witnessed.

 

[Jeysie]

Because that experience made me freakin paranoid.

And therefore, you assume that it's likely that women will be like that. Otherwise you'd simply realize that your friend managed to date a bad egg.

While slander and a ruined reputation can be serious things .... POSSIBLE CRIMINAL CHARGES, JAIL TIME, AND BEING LISTED IN THE SEX OFFENDER REGISTRY are on a whole different level of seriousness.

I've known a situation where a guy tried to slander another guy by accusing him of molestation, and actually had it do some damage. Barring women doesn't save you from that possibility.

While your philosophy of "Judge everyone on an individual basis, not on blanket terms of gender or other factors" would be nice in a utopia - I can't help but view it as impractical and unrealistic given the events I've both lived through and witnessed.

And based on what I've lived through and witnessed, I find that making blanket judgements does absolutely *jack* to actually make you safer. It just gives false security at the cost of cutting yourself off from something.

There are bad people out there. I've met them, I've dealt with them. I've seen people get hurt by them and been hurt by them myself. And the simple and sad fact is, you *can't* tell whether a person is good or bad just by their gender, race, religion, nationality, etc. You *can't* reliably make yourself safer just by excluding a specific demographic from your presence and calling it a day.

Judging everyone on an individual basis is not utopic... it is simply the only thing you can do. Blanket judgements do nothing but buy an artificial sense of security, because there are no universal indicators.

I've known people from many walks of life, races, nations, and religions. And in the end... it's each individual person that's the only thing you can really rely on judging. Sorry to crush any illusions.

Peace & Luv, Liz