1421: The Year China Discovered...

[gizmo33]

(And if you know who Marx is and not Hayek, or vica versa, then you don't have an education IMO.)

You got me on this one too - though I think if you don't know who Selma Hayek is then don't know what the use is of education...
In fact, I was afraid to google "Hayek" at work, for reasons that I probably don't need to explain. But fortunately, I got: "If you were to know only a single thing about Hayek, you might start with this -- Hayek is regarded as a key figure in the 20th century revival of liberalism." Not a deep place to mine for gaming ideas But something I should check out in my spare time. Darn 20th century...

 

[Desdichado]

I've never heard more of it, so I'm tempted to put it into the same catagory of 'history' as the UFO's abducting the Anasazi, lost tribes of Israel building the cities of the maya, and all the american indians being jewish before a massive battle in upstate newyork that destroyed their civilization but left no trace anyone has ever found.

Hey, now! Not only that, why is it that everyone talks about their being "no trace" and yet also ignore the glaringly mysterious Hopewell and related cultural horizons that are largely contiguous in time and location?

No trace found indeed.

 

[Desdichado]

You got me on this one too - though I think if you don't know who Selma Hayek is then don't know what the use is of education...
In fact, I was afraid to google "Hayek" at work, for reasons that I probably don't need to explain. But fortunately, I got: "If you were to know only a single thing about Hayek, you might start with this -- Hayek is regarded as a key figure in the 20th century revival of liberalism." Not a deep place to mine for gaming ideas But something I should check out in my spare time. Darn 20th century...

Probably the wrong Hayek then. Hayek (who's first name escapes me at the moment) was an Austrian economist at about the same time as Marx, or a little later, who built the theoretical groundwork on which free market economics is based.

 

[gizmo33]

Probably the wrong Hayek then. Hayek (who's first name escapes me at the moment) was an Austrian economist at about the same time as Marx, or a little later, who built the theoretical groundwork on which free market economics is based.

You know, I'm starting to get a dim recollection of having heard of that dude before - in the same category as Keynes (sp?) or whoever - I file it away in the McNiel-Lehrer section of my brain which has been slowly squeezed out by supermodels over the last 20 years.

 

[Celebrim]

Probably the wrong Hayek then. Hayek (who's first name escapes me at the moment) was an Austrian economist at about the same time as Marx, or a little later, who built the theoretical groundwork on which free market economics is based.

It's the right Hayek, and he's somewhat post Marx rather than his contemporary. He offered critiques of Marxism at the height of its popularity (1920's and 30's) and predicted that Marxist (or I should say post or neo Marxist, since Marx himself did not define an economic system) economic models would inevitably collapse because thier assumptions where not grounded in reality.

Hayek is one of the central figures in the reemergence of what's known now as 'classical Liberalism', that is the liberalism of Adam Smith, Burke, Jefferson, and Locke as opposed to the contrary lines of thought which emerged out out of the young Hegelian school of which Marx is the best known. As should be obvious from the list of figures shown praising Hayek, 'classical Liberalism' is at least in England and America (where it emerged and became part of the fundamental principles of the country) considered a branch of 'conservative' thinking. On the other hand, in countries which aren't founded on free market principles, libertarianism, and democracy, 'classical Liberalism' (200+ years old though it may be) remains a highly radical concept.

However, I'll have to stop pontificating there lest this stray too far into politics.

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

Would you believe that I had no idea who you were talking about and had to google the name before I got the joke.

Well, I heard she does have a BS in poli-science and is supposedly smarter than people give her credit for. Apparently, if you're good-looking, got nice cleavage and good skin, people think your dumb. Happens to me all the time (the good-looking and good-skin part, not the nice cleavage part).

What were we talking about? Oh yeah, 1421...

The central idea here of Chinese explored out and and about, as well as colonizing, is interesting. Use it as a curve ball for a party of traditional pseudo-European PCs who turn around and run into a near-army of well-prepared O.A. types who are exploring the PCs home-land and calling them "barbarians" and "noble savages" and so forth.

(Friedrich August Hayek)

 

[Desdichado]

(Friedrich August Hayek)

That's his name, thanks.

Knowing Hayek being a requirement for being educated seems a bit high-brow, I have to admit. Heck, I've got an economics degree, and I still only vaguely remember him.

 

[Celebrim]

Knowing Hayek being a requirement for being educated seems a bit high-brow, I have to admit. Heck, I've got an economics degree, and I still only vaguely remember him.

I'm going to let that 'high-brow' comment slide to a large extent simply because if we don't drag the topic back on track, the moderators are going to have to take notice of the discussion. All I'll say is that I wouldn't leave it to your instructors to decide for you what is high brow philosophy applicable only for ivory tower theorizing and what is basic education that everyone needs to know.

What were we talking about? Oh yeah, 1421...

Right. Ok, so what have we learned here. In a fantasy campaign...

1) You can have adventurers show up from far countries. Sometimes you don't have to take the PC's to the foreign culture. The foreign culture can come to them.
2) Big boats are cool. In conveinent FR terms, having the 300' long Junks from Kara Tur show up in Waterdeep can make for interesting color.
3) In the real world, there are usually mundane explanations for 'out of place artifacts'. It's a fantasy world, so feel free to use the most fantastic explanations you can think of.
4) Powerful empires can have a wide impact and can show up in places you wouldn't expect. In conveinent FR terms, it's ok discover in Maztica, that a secret order of knights from Amn or the Moonshea's or whatever has already been here centuries before and left behind mysterious relics related to an ancient secret.
5) It's perfectly fine to have lost civilizations and relics of forgotten times scattered around your fantasy world. Maybe somewhere in some hidden valley, the last city of an ancient empire still slumbers on quietly. Edgar Rice Burroughs was particularly fond of this device, and since I'm fond of Burroughs, I really need to remember to do this more in my campaigns.

 

[Klaus]

Not to burst anyone's Hi-Breasail bubble, but...

In April 22nd 1500, the Portuguese fleet led by Pedro Alvares Cabral, on its way to India, reached the shores of Porto Seguro (Safe Harbor), in the northeast of modern-day Brazil. The land was named Terra de Vera Cruz (Land of the True Cross).

During the initial explorations inland (and these took several years, as Cabral went on to India, then back to Portugal), they discovered a type of tree that could be processed to produce a rich blodd-red dye, very popular in Europe (and thusly, very valuable). The tree was named pau-brasil (or cinderwood, "brasa" being the portuguese word for "cinder or ember"). Eventually, the "land where pau-brasil comes from" became just Brasil (sometimes with a "z", sometimes with an "s").

Pau-brasil became the first economic boom-cycle in Brazil's history. The cinderwood tree is still one of Brasil's symbol.

So sorry, but no Celts around these parts.

 

[Desdichado]

I'm going to let that 'high-brow' comment slide to a large extent simply because if we don't drag the topic back on track, the moderators are going to have to take notice of the discussion. All I'll say is that I wouldn't leave it to your instructors to decide for you what is high brow philosophy applicable only for ivory tower theorizing and what is basic education that everyone needs to know.

Indeed. Some anonymous guy on the Internet is a better choice to make that determination.

You can have adventurers show up from far countries. Sometimes you don't have to take the PC's to the foreign culture. The foreign culture can come to them.

Along those lines, I often wish that I had the foresight to develop all kinds of random "big events" like that that don't necessarily have anything to do with the PCs, but which provide all kinds of interesting background. War on the southern borders. Natural disasters. Hotly contested bids for the throne. Invaders from a previously completely unknown country. Calls to settle a previously completely unknown country.

In the real world, there are usually mundane explanations for 'out of place artifacts'. It's a fantasy world, so feel free to use the most fantastic explanations you can think of.

What makes something like this interesting in the real world is the fact that it flies in the face of orthodox history, though. In a fantasy campaign, how do you get that same vibe?