15 levels of Mystic Theurge

[rgard]

Then what about Wiz 3/Drd 3/MT10/AH 4?

herzog

A nitpick, but I would do AH10/MT4 on the back end.

 

[rgard]

Taking that 15th level would be useless anyway. ('i get spells/level as a 21st clr... oh wait. no spells')
15 levels was an arbitrary number. (I could have said 'more than 10 levels of MT')

Also, some class combinations other than wiz/clr require you to take even more levels before entry, reducing the number of levels between MT10 and lvl 20 even more.

for 2/ : see other thread about balance questions (I'm trying not to repeat myself, even if it is in different threads)

Herzog

Hi Herzog. You could use True Necromancer (LM) as a guide for the 10+ level PrC. The TN gets a bunch of extra stuff but loses 2 lvls each of Cleric/wizard through the 14 levels of the PrC. Sacrificing the extra stuff would be balanced off-set by giving the full casting progression.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Herzog]

Took a quick look at TN

mmm. you might be on to something here.

herzog

 

[rgard]

Took a quick look at TN

mmm. you might be on to something here.

herzog

Yes, there is a special ability every level and it's a d6 so there there isn't a whole lot stopping you from keeping the d4 MT and continuing the dual casting increase each level.

For that matter it's worth looking at AH and expanding that to 14 levels too. If I get time, I'll look at that too.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Herzog]

The problems with comparing MT to AH and TN are:

1. both AH and TN are 'niche' PrC's, they are for a specific combination of classes, with requirements guarding that combination, whereas the MT is a 'generic' dual caster PrC
2. I have heard people complain about both AH and TN to be too powerfull. Of course, I've heard the same about MT, but since AH and TN get a lot of extra's, where the MT only gets spellcasting progression, I think that hardly counts.

Herzog

 

[rgard]

The problems with comparing MT to AH and TN are:

1. both AH and TN are 'niche' PrC's, they are for a specific combination of classes, with requirements guarding that combination, whereas the MT is a 'generic' dual caster PrC
2. I have heard people complain about both AH and TN to be too powerfull. Of course, I've heard the same about MT, but since AH and TN get a lot of extra's, where the MT only gets spellcasting progression, I think that hardly counts.

Herzog

Fair enough for the niche aspect of AH and TN, but if we are looking at relative power levels, I think you could even add a bonus feat to lvls 6 and 14 for the expanded MT and you still wouldn't have a class that was more powerful than TN or AH.

I personally wouldn't add the bonus feats, but I have no problem making the class a 14 level PrC keeping the dual casting advancement.

Of course for full disclosure, I have played a duskblade/wiz/ur-priest/mt/um up to 24th level and really enjoyed playing the character. So I may be biased, but as a DM, I wouldn't say no to a player wanting to play the same combination. I just don't agree with the folks who say that MT is over powered.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Destil]

If you're going to 15 levels you should spread out some non-spellcasting advancement levels, IMHO.
Mabye something like this
1-8: +1 / +1
9 & 10: +1 to one class (can't be the same one each level) and some sort of interesting ability, which the class is very much lacking.
11-18: +1 / +1
19 & 20 +1 to one class each.

et cetera.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

Personally, I think going 15 levels of Mt is a mistake, becasue then the character too easily gets 9th level spells in both arcane and divine. At 16th level, making the hard choice between 9th level spells in divine OR arcane is an important balancing mechanism.

Sorry, but too powerful for my taste.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

What would be the impact on game balance if I increased the number of levels in the Mystic Theurge Prestige Class to 15?

It would then 'close the gap' that exists for most characters between MT lvl 10 and Character level 20.

herzog

I came up with this very idea, though for any PrC with a simple progression rather than just the MT. I posted on the wizards boards; nobody came up with a convincing argument against it, as is the case here.

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

I have Both DM and played "Mystic Theurges" at EPIC progressions - particularly those of Wizard/Cleric paths.

In My experience; running the class's progression upwards on the chart as listed in the DMG AD INFINITUM is perfectly balanced. However, the class should NOT award ANY bonus feats like the other PRC for "epic" levels. Scrap the web published "update" for the class.

The main reason for this is MT in that format loses absolutely nothing as you advance the class. Other than +1 to existing arcane spellcasting class/ +1 to existing divine spellcasting class; there Is no other feature in the first place. Secondarily, at Epic level can use ELH rules for Epic spells - and with one feat acquire TWO epic progressions; One for Cleric and one for Wizard, provided you can actually spend the skill points in the appropriate two knowledge categories. Third, if you do it any other way; Your caster level starts to become far to low to overcome spell resistance at higher levels of the game, no matter how many feats you take.