15 Minute NPCs

[Kraydak]

Prestige classes. Steps 5, 6 & 7. Not all Wizards have the same spell list - not all fighters have the same feats. They certainly don't have the same equipment.

Prestige classes was a phenomenon that built over time. When 3e was released, PCs took no time because there weren't any (DMG list excepted). You didn't have to sweat meeting 3 different sets of PC prereqs by lvl 10.

4e doesn't have splat books yet. UNLESS there is no mechanic equivalent to PCs (and we all know how much players like options, so odds are good such a mechanic will be introduced if it doesn't exist already) introduced in the splatbooks (which we know are coming), you cannot discuss prestige classes in NPC generation times without being grossly unfair to 3e. Apples and oranges.

 

[Piratecat]

I just can't fathom taking 90 minutes to build one NPC in 3.5, even at high level.

Oh, I can. When I did full sheets for a githyanki strike force, it took freakin' forever. Purely martial characters are easy, but if you want to track skills, feats, magic items, prestige classes, and spells, high level NPCs can be a bear.

 

[BryonD]

For me it is all over the place.

I can easily spend over an hour building an NPC. I have done this quite a few times. But I have only done it in cases where I really wanted to spend the time doing it.

If I just need a foe for the party, it never takes more than 15 minutes and can take as little as zero. Just last session some unexpected changes came at me and I needed a 15th level wizard right then and there. So I just ran with it. As play continued I picked an AC and HP that worked and kept tick marks for spells used by level. The players never knew the difference. I think a lot of people make D&D vastly harder than it needs to be.

 

[Vayden]

Sure, a generic NPC like that you can knock up pretty quickly. However, 10 minutes is a long time for me for a generic NPC - I'd much rather use something from a MM for that. When I go to the effort to build an NPC, I'm usually building a villain of some sort which I hope will be a decent challenge to the players. If I use the PHB2 mechanic and make her level-appropriate, my group will have chewn her up and spit her out in 1-2 rounds. So I either have to take a lot more time picking out the right spells and feats (the PHB2 feat/spell selections are not really optimized) or go several levels higher than CR says, at which point the math may start getting twitchy.

**edit** I was getting more comfortable with winging it in my last couple of months of 3E GMing. If I need a 15th level wizard on the fly, I can kind of sort of pull it off. But I like having a NPC built like I would build a character, and that takes time, which discourages me from doing it. I LOVE MMV for this reason by the way - some very nice leveled NPCs that I can throw in when I need them, and a decent sampling across challenge ratings.

 

[ThirdWizard]

If I'm going to take the time to stat out someone, I want it to be memorable, mechanically. I want the NPC to do something that I haven't done before. Whether that means using PrCs, spells, or whatnot that I haven't used before, it takes time to look through books to design. Athux (PCs fight him next Saturday!) aint' just another NPC to rush through, he's an integral part of the adventure and needs a stat block that is as unique as he is.

Personally I also try to make a unique magic item for every major NPC enemy the PCs will be facing. I think it adds a bit of personal touch to the encounter, especially if it stands out. Something to keep the PCs guessing.

 

[Cam Banks]

PHB 2 will let you make an NPC. It may not let you make the NPC you actually want. I agree that it's an incredible time-saver, but I couldn't have used it, for example, to churn out all of the NPC stat blocks for Price of Courage (which left me with an 80 page appendix).

This is like saying "how come you have such a hard time getting dinner? I just walk into McDonalds and pick a random Value Meal from the big boards above the counter."

Cheers,
Cam

 

[takasi]

The PHB 2 says it should take 5 minutes to create a low level NPC.

And as far as variance, why not work on more tables and charts for the PHB 2 system?

I think the reason why Mearls and others here take so long to design their NPCs is that they are designing them for gamist purposes from the ground up. They want to create something unique and challenging in a skirmish battle, rather than using a more organic (and realistic) creation method. Using tables and charts are much faster, and if some thought is put into those rules the results WILL be a good challenge as a side effect.

 

[BryonD]

All I can say to the OP:

If you're that fast now, imagine how fast you'll be using 4e!

Yeah, but you have to write up more bad guys in 4E, so it will take that much longer....

 

[bgardner]

Well, I think you need to keep this in contex. The 90 minute cite was for an NPC suitable for publication. It has to be an interesting build, not just something that everyone can make off the top of their head. It also has to be mathematically correct; if you forget even one bonus someones going to call you on it. For example, synergy bonuses on skills and what bonuses stack with what. Also, if the NPC is a spellcaster then you'll want to include notes on which spells (s)he has pre-cast, and adjust the stats accordingly.

If you still think you can create an interesting NPC that is complete and mathematically correct in 15 minutes then give it a shot and post your NPC here. Time yourself. Try making it mid to high level. Let's see how well you do.

 

[Wormwood]

If you're that fast now, imagine how fast you'll be using 4e!

Win.