Infiniti2000
First Post
Wasn't THAC0 2e? In 1e, there were charts for each class and one for monsters, against each AC.Spoony Bard said:
D&D 3E/3.5 1e to 3e Introduction
- Thread starter Michael Morris
- Start date
DreadPirateMurphy
Explorer
Becoming a bard doesn't require a huge rigamarole. You used to have to multiclass something like 3 times.
Clerics have spontaneous healing and domain powers -- this is a significant ramp up in power.
Feats play a major role in the fighter class, making it both more complicated and more flexible.
Humans gain benefits instead of just lacking level limits.
All of the major spellcasting classes have spell level 0-9. Illusionists are now a specialized type of wizard.
Thief abilities are now all skill-based and no longer use a percentile roll.
Combat is optimized for miniatures. Technically, they aren't "required," but they simplify things unless you heavily house rule combat.
Monster challenges have a CR instead of just an HD match-up. They also can have class levels pretty easily. Templates are also a new concept. Monster listings always come with a verbal description.
There are more categories of stuff. Special abilities are (Su), (Sp), or (Ex). There are different types of damage reduction. Monsters have types that have a real impact on play. Weapons are simple, martial, or exotic.
No weapon speed, just light, one-handed, or two-handed categories.
Darkvision replaces infravision and/or ultravision.
Attacks of opportunity make combat more tactical -- or fudge it up, depending on your opinion. YMMV.
No electrum pieces.
Attributes have an impact every 2, e.g., Str 15 vs. Str 17. Even numbers change the modifier, while odd are used as prerequisities for things like feats and prestige classes. There is no exceptional strength (e.g., 18/00).
Prestige classes allow for classes with prerequisites. Not everybody can sign up to be an assassin. There is no shortage (heh) of prestige classes available.
Spell names have changes to be more consistent...for the most part. You will frequently see "greater" and "lesser" versions of spells, for example.
Characters automatically start at 1st level with maximum hp.
Saves are not only simplified to 3, but your attributes (Dex, Con, Wis) have a direct impact on every save in addition to your class progression.
Higher AC equates to better armor. Characters have base attack bonuses instead of THAC0.
Greyhawk is the default setting...which has little practical impact. Spell names and deities are the primary influences.
Metamagic allows you to pump up spells in a variety of ways, extending duration, range, damage, etc. Metamagic requires a feat (or rare magic items or spell components).
The rules for magic item creation are generally more consistent, and more data is provided for magic items in general -- aura, caster level, creation requirements, etc.
Multiclassing is much easier to do. There are no racial limits, and no "dual-classing." XP progression is regular across classes.
Sorcerers and bards are spontaneous casters, which is different from the 1e system where everybody memorized spells for the day.
For whatever reason, the sci-fi elements that were in products like Needle and the Expedition to the Barrier Peaks have failed to manifest in any 3e products, but WotC mostly relies on Dungeon and D20 publishers to produce adventures these days. The DMG does still have rules for laser rifles.
Clerics have spontaneous healing and domain powers -- this is a significant ramp up in power.
Feats play a major role in the fighter class, making it both more complicated and more flexible.
Humans gain benefits instead of just lacking level limits.
All of the major spellcasting classes have spell level 0-9. Illusionists are now a specialized type of wizard.
Thief abilities are now all skill-based and no longer use a percentile roll.
Combat is optimized for miniatures. Technically, they aren't "required," but they simplify things unless you heavily house rule combat.
Monster challenges have a CR instead of just an HD match-up. They also can have class levels pretty easily. Templates are also a new concept. Monster listings always come with a verbal description.
There are more categories of stuff. Special abilities are (Su), (Sp), or (Ex). There are different types of damage reduction. Monsters have types that have a real impact on play. Weapons are simple, martial, or exotic.
No weapon speed, just light, one-handed, or two-handed categories.
Darkvision replaces infravision and/or ultravision.
Attacks of opportunity make combat more tactical -- or fudge it up, depending on your opinion. YMMV.
No electrum pieces.
Attributes have an impact every 2, e.g., Str 15 vs. Str 17. Even numbers change the modifier, while odd are used as prerequisities for things like feats and prestige classes. There is no exceptional strength (e.g., 18/00).
Prestige classes allow for classes with prerequisites. Not everybody can sign up to be an assassin. There is no shortage (heh) of prestige classes available.
Spell names have changes to be more consistent...for the most part. You will frequently see "greater" and "lesser" versions of spells, for example.
Characters automatically start at 1st level with maximum hp.
Saves are not only simplified to 3, but your attributes (Dex, Con, Wis) have a direct impact on every save in addition to your class progression.
Higher AC equates to better armor. Characters have base attack bonuses instead of THAC0.
Greyhawk is the default setting...which has little practical impact. Spell names and deities are the primary influences.
Metamagic allows you to pump up spells in a variety of ways, extending duration, range, damage, etc. Metamagic requires a feat (or rare magic items or spell components).
The rules for magic item creation are generally more consistent, and more data is provided for magic items in general -- aura, caster level, creation requirements, etc.
Multiclassing is much easier to do. There are no racial limits, and no "dual-classing." XP progression is regular across classes.
Sorcerers and bards are spontaneous casters, which is different from the 1e system where everybody memorized spells for the day.
For whatever reason, the sci-fi elements that were in products like Needle and the Expedition to the Barrier Peaks have failed to manifest in any 3e products, but WotC mostly relies on Dungeon and D20 publishers to produce adventures these days. The DMG does still have rules for laser rifles.
Last edited:
Peter Gibbons
First Post
The principle of THAC0 worked the same in 1e, and was used by many of us before 2e came along and made it the standard.Infiniti2000 said:
Infiniti2000
First Post
I agree, and maybe I'm misremembering, but I didn't think there was a 100% error-free correlation between the charts in 1e and the THAC0 chart in 2e. If not, you can't call 1e THAC0 anymore than you can call 1e d20.Peter Gibbons said:
Storm Raven
First Post
Infiniti2000 said:I agree, and maybe I'm misremembering, but I didn't think there was a 100% error-free correlation between the charts in 1e and the THAC0 chart in 2e. If not, you can't call 1e THAC0 anymore than you can call 1e d20.
Actually, THAC0 was listed in the 1e DMG, in the appendix where it gave statistics for all the MM monsters.
Ability score generation is more flexable and player friendly in 3.5.
In 1st ed the default rules (they didn't include any optional rules in the rule books until UA) were 3d6 in order, no re-rolls - that was how my first PC was an 8 Int wizard.
3.5 is 4d6 drop the lowest and arrange as desired with re-roll all stats if no net positivie modifier and no score greater than a 13.
Races don't have minimum/maximum ability scores anymore.
So the dice rolls don't automatically determine your character's class (and race) anymore.
In 1st ed the default rules (they didn't include any optional rules in the rule books until UA) were 3d6 in order, no re-rolls - that was how my first PC was an 8 Int wizard.
3.5 is 4d6 drop the lowest and arrange as desired with re-roll all stats if no net positivie modifier and no score greater than a 13.
Races don't have minimum/maximum ability scores anymore.
So the dice rolls don't automatically determine your character's class (and race) anymore.
nittanytbone
First Post
The initiative system is much more clearly explained in 3.5 than in 1E.
Also, you can tell them that the High Gygaxian has been parsed into English, and they'll believe you for a little while at least. All those things that they've been trying to do, and you've needed to houserule, actually have a rule in 3.5.
Also, you can tell them that the High Gygaxian has been parsed into English, and they'll believe you for a little while at least. All those things that they've been trying to do, and you've needed to houserule, actually have a rule in 3.5.
Quasqueton
First Post
Actually, there was no "default" rule for rolling up PCs in AD&D1. (There wasn't even an explanation of how to do it in the PHB.) "Method 1" (of 6), in the DMG, was roll 4d6 drop 1. This was the most commonly used method. D&D3 made it the default.
Quasqueton
diaglo
Adventurer
irdeggman said:
actually the rolling method was revised in 1979 when they released the DMG. they introduced several methods for stat generation. after the DMG was released, the most commonly used at conventions and in discussions in groups and magazines was the 4d6 drop lowest.
But all of the 1st ed rules on ability score generation still required you to use them in order didn't they? I know every character I created until sometime in 2nd ed that was themethod used.
And since we are not talking about various house rules but core rules it only makes sense to point this out, IMO. It really is pointless to use house for any comparison since a DM could just as easily use the 3.5 initiative system in 1st ed or vice versa if he desired - toomany permutations.
And since we are not talking about various house rules but core rules it only makes sense to point this out, IMO. It really is pointless to use house for any comparison since a DM could just as easily use the 3.5 initiative system in 1st ed or vice versa if he desired - toomany permutations.
