D&D 5E 2-handed weapons: damage delimma

[dave2008]

Power Attack: When attacking with a wrapon in two hands, you can forgoe your Str bonus to hit to add an additional 2x ste bonus to damage.

This is basically GWM feature, but scales with Str. It is quite strong.

Sure that is an option, but not what I am talking about. I prefer there not be a penalty to hit, like my option #2

 

[Don Durito]

If you were to do this, I'd probably make this a feature of Great Weapon Fighting Style instead of the reroll.

So with 18 Strength and a Greatsword you'd normally do 4+8.3 = 12.3
This way you'd do 8+5.5 (D10 for Greatsword) = 13.5.

So it'd be a buff, but not a massive one (a bit better at 20 Strength). And arguably Greatweapon Fighters need a bit of a buff if Greatweapon Master is not allowed. (And it would sure be nice for your minimum damage to be 9.)

This has the benefit of meaning versatile weapons suffer less by comparison.

Just bear in mind that anything that buffs Great Weapon Fighting makes two-weapon fighting even worse by comparison once extra attacks start being accounted for.

 

[Zardnaar]

They already deal more damage almost 50%

4.5 vs 6.5 or 7.

Duelist throws it out a bit but it represents training for IMHO.

And great weapons already uber with feats.

Tired of them always being the best option since say 2E.

So yeah not needed if anything other styles need better feat support.

 

[dave2008]

They already deal more damage almost 50%

4.5 vs 6.5 or 7.

Duelist throws it out a bit but it represents training for IMHO.

And great weapons already uber with feats.

Tired of them always being the best option since say 2E.

So yeah not needed if anything other styles need better feat support.

It doesn't just apply to great weapons. It applies to any weapon that is used 2-handed. And feats are not something I am concerning myself with.

Swinging a weapon 2-handed should, IMO, do more damage than swinging it one handed. That is what I am trying to emulate.

 

[Laurefindel]

During the 3.x era, the conversion rate was +1 AC = +1 to hit = +2 damage, if that’s any help.

So according to this, a weapon and shield should be 4 damage under the average of a 2-handed weapon.

again, according to this, the breaking point would be Str 16, where 1d8+3 and +2 AC is balanced against 1d10+6. Above Str 16 the math “breaks” in favour of 2-handed. Below that, shield is better.

that’s before combat styles start to muddy this model, for what it’s worth.

 

[Zardnaar]

During the 3.x era, the conversion rate was +1 AC = +1 to hit = +2 damage, if that’s any help.

So according to this, a weapon and shield should be 4 damage under the average of a 2-handed weapon.

again, according to this, the breaking point would be Str 16, where 1d8+3 and +2 AC is balanced against 1d10+6. Above Str 16 the math “breaks” in favour of 2-handed. Below that, shield is better.

that’s before combat styles start to muddy this model, for what it’s worth.

3E double dipped. You got X1.5 or X2 strength mod and the -1/+2 damage vs -1/+1.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

Maybe that could be a Fighting Style?

I, personally, would make it only apply to Versatile weapons, because versatile weapons don't have a fighting style that buffs them.

That and we need more fighting styles IMO. They're neat and fun.

 

[Don Durito]

They already deal more damage almost 50%

4.5 vs 6.5 or 7.

Duelist throws it out a bit but it represents training for IMHO.

And great weapons already uber with feats.

Tired of them always being the best option since say 2E.

So yeah not needed if anything other styles need better feat support.

This is where the whole system throws itself into trouble.

It's difficult to fix one thing without fixing something else.

I'm pretty much convinced that Duellist was originally intended to enable a single handed rapier fighter without a shield. Being in the ball park of Great Weapon Fighting before adding the style, but having the benefit of being able to use Dex, balances reasonably well.

But Great Weapon Master the Feat was too good, so Duelist is only really comparable when it becomes allowable with a shield, but this brings down the trade-off without Great Weapon Master Style as you can now use Dex and have +2 AC.

And then of course the poor Two-Weapon Fighter just gets left completely out of the arms race altogether.

And of course now that Duellist is so good anything else that a Sword and Board fighter might be tempted to pick up such as Defensive Style or Protection just looks weak in comparison. +1 Ac may seem like a reaonable tradeoff for +2 damage at 1st level but that trade-off goes on to become +4 and then +6 as you start piling on the extra attacks.

It also means that any new fighting styles, such as the one that gives you a maneuver and superiority dice in the class variants article, suffer in comparison as well.

 

[Zardnaar]

This is where the whole system throws itself into trouble.

It's difficult to fix one thing without fixing something else.

I'm pretty much convinced that Duellist was originally intended to enable a single handed rapier fighter without a shield. Being in the ball park of Great Weapon Fighting before adding the style, but having the benefit of being able to use Dex, balances reasonably well.

But Great Weapon Master the Feat was too good, so Duelist is only really comparable when it becomes allowable with a shield, but this brings down the trade-off without Great Weapon Master Style as you can now use Dex and have +2 AC.

And then of course the poor Two-Weapon Fighter just gets left completely out of the arms race altogether.

And of course now that Duellist is so good anything else that a Sword and Board fighter might be tempted to pick up such as Defensive Style or Protection just looks weak in comparison. +1 Ac may seem like a reaonable tradeoff for +2 damage at 1st level but that trade-off goes on to become +4 and then +6 as you start piling on the extra attacks.

It also means that any new fighting styles, such as the one that gives you a maneuver and superiority dice in the class variants article, suffer in comparison as well.

TWF is good through to level 11 if you go Dex based and it offers more versatility in terms of switching to a bow and skill based.

For example with the twf feat you get +1 AC and can switch between now and two swords if you carry around 1 weapon in a dungeon.

 

[Don Durito]

TWF is good through to level 11 if you go Dex based and it offers more versatility in terms of switching to a bow and skill based.

For example with the twf feat you get +1 AC and can switch between now and two swords if you carry around 1 weapon in a dungeon.

It can be but there's really three ifs there. If you go Dex based, and if you are lower than level 11, and if you are playing with feats.

And even then your best option is two rapiers, which is overly specific, and stylistically may not really be desired. Without the feat your damage is down to a D6+ Dex (no duelist bonus) and you're down two points of AC.

Plus while most campaigns may not go far past level 11, it's not so high that's it's not a consideration. Level 20 is probably not worth being concerned with, but I wouldn't want to watch my characters get overshadowed right as the game reaches a likely climax.