2 PCs charge 1 NPC from same direction

[Infiniti2000]

Ah, but under the D&D movement rules, it's quite possible to have three "closest" spots.

Sure, but only one is directly towards the opponent.

 

[Mistwell]

Sure, but only one is directly towards the opponent.

That depends on what directly towards means. A humanoid body is three dimensional. The rules say there is no facing, an individual occupies every part of that square, and all squares next to an individual are equal as far as attacking is concerned. The diagnol square is exactly equal to the non-diagnol square concerning attacking and distance. Therefore, unless the rule is center square to center square (which I think is the issue in question), ALL of those three squares are by definition directly towards the creature, as all three of them are in the direct line to the creature (though it might be just a corner of their square rather than the center of their square).

Imagine a wall 20 feet long. If I move towards one end of the wall or the other, am I moving directly towards the wall? I'd say yes, unless the definition of moving towards the wall is moving directly towards the center of the wall. I think that is what we are dealing with here, and why WOTC made the ruling that they did recently.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Sure, but only one is directly towards the opponent.

The shortest distance between two points is a straight line, right?

  ----------
  |........|
  |..[color=MediumTurquoise]1[/color]....[color=white][b]@[/b][/color][color=brown]+[/color]####
  |.[color=DarkSlateGray][b]o[/b][/color][color=MediumTurquoise]2[/color].....|   ##
  |........|
  |........|
  ----------

The shortest distance between my square and the goblin's square is 6 squares - 30 feet. Therefore any path which measures 30 feet is the shortest distance between my square and the goblin's square, and is thus a straight line between my square and the goblin's square, and therefore following that path is 'moving directly toward the goblin'.

There are six paths that measure 30 feet. Five of them pass through square 2, 1 of them passes through square 1. Any of those six paths would satisfy the requirement of the charge... so I can make my attack from square 1 or square 2 with perfect legality.

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

Well, to play devil's advocate, I must admit that my most straightforward reading of the 3.5 rules is in fact to limit just a single character charging the opponent in a situation like this. (And that's how my new DM ruled it tonight, so I can't say I disagree with him.)

When D&D says "straight line" it really means just that. Making a complicated argument that "straight line" means "shortest distance by stepwise square metric" is convenient in this case, but not really how the rules are written.

 

[Thanee]

First, note that you left out the key words in the Charge description. Second, note that under that interpretation you could have Z charge to three different positions (in Y's ending square and in the square below).

Correct, there are 3 options for the closest space, since the first diagonal move only costs 5 ft. in movement.

However, technically, even the first diagonal step costs 7.5 ft., it's just rounded down, so I would actually argue, that you HAVE to move in a straight line, if that brings you into melee range!

Am I the only one who understands the phrase "directly towards"? How could there be three different routes to go directly towards your opponent?

Yes!

No, probably not.

Bye
Thanee

 

[comareddin]

The shortest distance between two points is a straight line, right?


-Hyp.

Not if you are traveling in space time as proposed by Mr. Einstein

Com

 

[kjenks]

Not if you are traveling in space time as proposed by Mr. Einstein

Com

And not if you are measuring distance by D&D rules, with 5 ft. diagonals.

 

[Infiniti2000]

That depends on what directly towards means. A humanoid body is three dimensional. The rules say there is no facing, an individual occupies every part of that square, and all squares next to an individual are equal as far as attacking is concerned. The diagnol square is exactly equal to the non-diagnol square concerning attacking and distance.

Well, consider this

.z
oz Z
.z

Z wants to charge o. There are three squares equidistant from Z's starting position, per the 3.5 movement rules. We all agree on the fact that they are the same distance. How many of these three paths lead directly toward o? It should be obvious that only the one in the middle is toward o. The other two are toward the side of o. This doesn't matter if o is a 5x5x5 gelatinous cube or not, just that in no possible (sane) way can you say that the path to the top or the bottom is directly towards the opponent.

The shortest distance between two points is a straight line, right?

Right, so you want to connect the two points? This profound statement has nothing to do with my argument, btw. I'm not arguing shortest distance.

Correct, there are 3 options for the closest space, since the first diagonal move only costs 5 ft. in movement.

Once again, the argument is not shortest distance or closest space. If there are multiple closest spaces, only one can be considered "directly towards" the opponent. Only in the case where you can demonstrate that two spaces are equally distant from the starting position and both could arguably be considered directly towards the opponent could you argue that you can charge to two different locations against the same opponent. It would be difficult to come up with an example, to be sure, and for the most part it will never happen in game.

 

[Krelios]

This misunderstanding comes up all the time. The rules don't say "directly toward the center of your opponent's square" or you couldn't charge a creature that was large since the center of his square is an intersection. Rather, it says:

Movement During a Charge You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent.

You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.)

If you don’t have line of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn, you can’t charge that opponent.

You can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round as a charge.

If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.

If there is someone standing in a space adjacent to my target, I cannot attack the opponent from that space, so there are now, two new, equidistant points that satisfy the criteria.

00C000
0EA00M
00C000

If I am "M," my ally is "A," and my enemy is "E," then both "C" squares would fulfil the criteria of directly towards my opponent to the closest square from which I can make an attack.

 

[Infiniti2000]

This misunderstanding comes up all the time. The rules don't say "directly toward the center of your opponent's square" or you couldn't charge a creature that was large since the center of his square is an intersection.

Right. But, it does say "directly toward the designated opponent." You can't just ignore that.

If there is someone standing in a space adjacent to my target, I cannot attack the opponent from that space, so there are now, two new, equidistant points that satisfy the criteria.

They satisfy the distance criterion, but not that other two criteria: "directly toward" and blocking.

If I am "M," my ally is "A," and my enemy is "E," then both "C" squares would fulfil the criteria of directly towards my opponent to the closest square from which I can make an attack.

Both C squares are definitely not directly towards your opponent. Furthermore, they are clearly blocked by A. Reread this: "Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.)" Draw a line from your lower left corner to the lower left corner of the upper C. It passes through A's square and thus is invalid. A similar approach would invalidate the bottom C.