2 surges per rest

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

well, the last solo of the campaign (the PCs were level 24, I think?) and the solo was level 27. Not sure they were encounter powers or recharge ones, but the solo had a daily or two, plus another daily that recharged once bloodied, and then had an aura, a nifty minor action power usable every round and the regular at-will power. The problem with the aura was that even at a high level, the players usually had some sort of item or power that allowed them to neutralize it and the guy playing the archer ranger had an uncanny ability to roll really high and would bombard the bad guys from a distance. (His father playing a defender/fighter was the opposite, had an uncanny ability to miss when he only needed a 4 or 5 on the d20...)

But, if all your solo has for her last 500 or so hit points is the at-will standard, at-will minor and hopefully a recharge power every 3rd round or so, it gets boring fast.

Are you the DM?

Monsters pretty much never get dailies. Any daily powers that a monster has should be an item power. Also dailies don't recharge unless they're reliable. So I think you're talking about encounter powers.

Good solos get nastier when bloodied. They don't just recharge a power, they get an aura (or a nastier one), their attacks deal more damage, they get a new attack type, their powers attack more targets, etc. A nastier aura should bypass some resistance. In addition, auras can have effects beyond mere damage.

Well-designed solos get multiple action powers (standard and minor attacks), usually getting two or three attacks just with a standard action, plus triggered powers... plus a way to avoid too much action loss.

I also have to say a level 27 solo is not a good challenge for a level 24 party. Two level 24 solos would be more interesting. The last time I threw an at-level dual solo encounter at my PCs, it should have been a TPK. (Instead, the enemies captured all but one PC.)

What monster was this level 27 solo? I want to take a look at it.

 

[Quickleaf]

It's more about uncertainty. In pre-3e, up until high levels the players don't know when they'll have to fight, and do know it will take a while to heal up, so any damage is worrying - it's a long-term threat. 4e removes that dynamic.

Ah, that's a different objective. Then yes, your reduced rate of healing surge recovery seems like a feasible solution though it does create an unfortunate quirk:

Defenders (who tend to spend the most surges & have the most surges) take longer to reach their maximum surge compliment. Maybe instead provide a recovery rate that is a % value rather than a hard value to avoid this?

 

[NewJeffCT]

The level 27 solo was Baba Yaga. She had an aura that prevented teleporting within 10 squares, and also gave a penalty to flying creatures.

Her main at-will was Broomstick, which was a melee only attack.
She also had a recharge power Crushing Grasp, which recharged on a 5 or 6 (every 3rd round, on average), but was kind of pointless most of the time, since the party was spread out.
Vile Transmutation was a nasty standard action power that recharged when she used an action point, so could be used 3 times in the combat

She had a move action power which allowed her to teleport 5 squares and use Broomstick. Nice to get out of grapples, or when flanked by the rogue.

Minor Action power of Evil Eye, which was 1 enemy within 10 squares could be subjected to making a free basic attack against an ally.

Triggered Action - if she takes fire damage, she can gain 25 temp hit points (piddly against level 24)
And, once per round, she can make an attack against anybody within 10 squares of her that damages her, which didn't come into play that often to be honest. The ranger was pummeling her from 20+ squares away, the rogue & fighter were occupied with her Elite bodyguards, while the goliath defender/striker kept trying to attack her, but would get hit with broomstick and teleported away, and then she'd try to use Evil Eye to slide him father away to attack an ally. The party shaman was busy trying to keep the party healed, but would also try to hit Baba-Yaga from afar as well, as would the wizard. And, since the goliath was mostly melee stuff, he'd then have to double move to get back into her face, then he'd get sent away again.

But, once the party had polished off the elites and other bodyguards, and had Baba Yaga bloodied, the party was fully healed, though down a bunch of Daily & Encounter powers. Since the night was getting late, I declared that the players had won the combat, since Baba Yaga basically had no chance without allies, and would now be the full focus of all the attacks. I didn't want to sit there for another 2 hours doing 2 broomsticks a round, teleport the goliath and have him attack the fighter, every single time.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Baba Yaga is a post-Essentials monster, so I was expecting better things.

The aura wasn't useless. It didn't deal damage but made escaping from her crushing grasp more difficult. I agree that a close blast attack doesn't really make sense for that power. (Why would you want to immobilize someone who is right next to you if you're not a soldier/defender?)

She does get 4 attacks per turn (broomstick, sweep the field, evil eye and witch's curse), but as a controller she should be able to get four ranged/AoE per turn. I agree that she's not getting nastier while bloodied. Essentials monsters started appearing in Dungeon Magazine around issue 181, so this is a year and a half later. A bit sad, but then many solos aren't well-designed

Edit: As an epic-level monster she should have three recharge abilities but only has two, another reason for the excess of at-will options. Many (but by no means all) solos have interesting at-will options, and this tends to be the case when it comes to controllers.

 

[keterys]

To be honest, if her main threat was the ranger, she should have just gone to him (maybe lose one attack if she has to teleport 10 with her move instead of broomstick). Only has to get up to him once, and he's in melee range forevermore. Whatever she does, she should be getting a use of witch's curse every turn she's attacked by something that doesn't prevent immediates.

Her recharge power also does as much damage as her melee attack for most PCs, but has added control and bypasses concealment, so is worth using even on one target.

She's really not that bad. Not my preferred method of solo, but frankly I almost always prefer elites. She threatens multiple ranges and defenses, can be very mobile, and has some threatening options. She does get less interesting after 4 rounds, but the party really should be able to kill her within that much or fewer (I'm guessing she came with quite a lot of other stuff)

 

[the Jester]

Hmm, she sounds okay, but not great; not enough variety in what she can do. I like to design my own solos a lot of the time.

 

[Balesir]

Ah, that's a different objective. Then yes, your reduced rate of healing surge recovery seems like a feasible solution though it does create an unfortunate quirk:

Defenders (who tend to spend the most surges & have the most surges) take longer to reach their maximum surge compliment. Maybe instead provide a recovery rate that is a % value rather than a hard value to avoid this?

I was about to make this observation, but I think it's more than a quirk, to be honest. Defenders' job is to take damage so that the rest of the party don't - they can't do that (without being a drain on the party) if the limit on recovery is a flat "X surges per extended rest".

Here's another alternative that seems to work OK (I have used it for part of the Paragon section of our campaign):

Each area has a "safety rating" for XRs (extended rests), on a scale from 1 to 6. 1 means "exceedingly safe" and 6 means "you'll get a fragmented rest here at best.

To regain a surge or a Daily power or anything else you get from an XR, you need to roll the safety rating or higher on a d6. For surges, this can sometimes be done in batches, for simplicity (e.g., in a safety 5 area you get one surge back for every three expended, and then roll for any "odd" surges in excess of multiples of three).

Action points, daily item uses (which we still use) and milestones reset at any XR - as do things like Shadowfell curse cards and so on, ring powers and powers that say "plus X per Y since the last extended rest".

A cosy inn in a safe town gets a rating of "1"; a dingy room in the dungeon with a dodgy door gets a "5" or a "6"...

So far this system seems to work tolerably well, with players only choosing to rest in unsafe places if in dire need (and then every surge lost - and daily power used - really does count!).

 

[S'mon]

I was about to make this observation, but I think it's more than a quirk, to be honest. Defenders' job is to take damage so that the rest of the party don't - they can't do that (without being a drain on the party) if the limit on recovery is a flat "X surges per extended rest".

The lone Defender (dwarf knight) in the group isn't a big factor, he probably takes less damage
than the melee Strikers - Slayer & TWF Ranger. The others are a Wizard, archer Ranger,
and Bard. The Slayer is pretty min-maxed, the TWF Ranger rolls around 8 dice on an average attack, the others are more typical. The Slayer runs short on surges well before the Knight.

With 3 Strikers the group focuses heavily on killing things fast. The Wizard is an effective Controller, as is the Bard, who also Buffs. The Knight doesn't have big DPR and isn't very sticky at high-Paragon.

 

[Balesir]

The lone Defender (dwarf knight) in the group isn't a big factor, he probably takes less damage than the melee Strikers - Slayer & TWF Ranger.

Fair 'nuff - I was going by the fighter and paladin in my (7 player) group. The fighter (technically fighter-cleric) has been known to suck in most of the damage in an encounter and take nearly twice his total hps in damage in a single combat (while everyone else took close to nil).

Even without this, though, I think a flat "2 surges per x-rest" would encourage some/many players just to rest often, getting daily powers more frequently than is really desirable. Maybe you could let us know how it works out?

 

[Quickleaf]

Hmm, she sounds okay, but not great; not enough variety in what she can do. I like to design my own solos a lot of the time.

Seconded. Hey, is there a thread for 4e solo creation out there? I mean, I know you have some in the Monster Project (which is awesome ), but i was thinking a thread where we could trade design notes. If not maybe we should start one to showcase our homebrew solos?