2006 ENnies discussion

[nakia]

I'd like to say good luck to everyone as well. It looks as if no matter who gets elected, there will be five strong judges.

Big props to Dextra as well, for organizing all this!

 

[PatrickLawinger]

Patrick, what other comments do you have? As a former judge and staff member who is currently involved in the preproduction planning for next years ENnies, I can tell you that the board of directors, judges, and staff of the ENnies take all the comments and suggestions seriously.

I'll try to respond in the time I have. Please forgive bad wording, and the usual typos, spelling, etc. ...

The opinions below are mine. I work extensively, though not necessarily exclusively, for Necromancer Games. I don't want people to confuse that fact with the essential fact that the opinions below are mine. NG plans to enter, and continue entering, products in the Ennies regardless of details and opinions listed below. It is our way of supporting ENWorld and this community even if some of us can't make it to these boards (or even our own) very often.

(RangerWicket-Ibelieve)
And to the poster who wondered if early shipping was a bad idea, I heard that a few publishers were unable to send products that had sold out. This way we encourage them to send along copies before they run out in the first place.

Guys, it is ALWAYS preferable to sell out of a product. I mean, ALWAYS. As far as Necromancer Games is concerned, all of our major products are also released as .pdfs for sale through DTRPG so we can enter .pdfs if something sells out. As far as what others do if they sell out and don't sell .pdfs too, well, that is up to them. In the past, Clark Peterson (NG) has sent his own personal copies of a book to the Judges to have it entered in the contest.

The reason(s) I consider early/continuous shipping a bad idea:
(1)Cost (pretty much everything boils down to this) It is cheaper to ship a group of books in a single box. You are already asking publishers to ship to each judge individually. Shipping costs are going to rise, if you haven't already noticed it, you soon will.
a) advantage to larger publishers; larger publishers with more organized shipping are going to be able to ship products continuously if they wish to (not always an advantage, see below)
b) pressure on smaller publishers, those that want to enter and compete with the "big boys" are going to feel pressured into shipping regularly, realistically adding what I feel is an unfair burden to them. This could lead to the decision of some to simply not enter.

The suggestion I made is to set up specific shipping dates for products. This means Judges can expect material at certain times, rather than continuously. This does several things;
1)makes shipping easier and slightly less expensive for those that participate in early shipping
2)makes shipping confirmation easier for both the pubishers and judges

It should be made clear to publishers that they do NOT need to ship early and can indeed ship products at the final "deadline" for submission if they choose. I would suggest only one "early" shipping date myself.

The general theme of my advice is to make it easy, and as inexpensive as possible, for publishers to participate. You have to remember, participating is a cost to publishers. The awards, to the best of my knowledge, have had only minor (if any) effect on sales. This doesn't mean people don't want to enter them, or to receive them if they win, just that you are asking publishers, particularly small publishers, to spend extra money, time, and effort with very little in the way of financial return. Some of us think it is worth it, others are in the "middle," and we know that some publishers won't enter at all. You want to keep it so the people in the "middle" believe the costs are low enough that they should continue to enter.

I suppose my other comment is to "get off your high horse."

I heard complaints aired at this year's GenCon about some publishers that didn't enter. One person made comments to the effect that ENWorld was "snubbed" and that a particular publisher should be "trashed." I spoke to that person and pointed out that all they were doing was hurting ENWorld and the Ennies by talking like that.

The goal should be to have as many publishers involved as possible. Please remember when encouraging publishers to participate that you need to "encourage." Claiming that this is the best place to advertise for "any game damn it" is not going to ingratiate yourselves. While this may be true for .pdf publishers, it simply isn't true for print publishers or large distribution publishers. Tout the awards as a way to recognize the editors, writers, and artists doing the work, not as a way to advertise.

I said this last year and got flamed to hell for it, the Ennies aren't valid advertising. A nomination is great, an award is better, but (at least for print publishers) neither is going to drive massive sales (this is certainly different for some .pdf publishers). Some additional sales, sure, probably. You should advertise and promote the Ennies based on being a "recognition of acheivement" and point out that companies recognized for achievements can find an easier time getting new products into distribution, etc. Will publishers try to use the awards to sell more product? You damn betcha. At the same time, if you try to tout the Ennies as a way to advertise, it will lead to disappointment. Let's face it, spending the $ to submit your product does not guarantee a nomination.
(I guess I'd better get my flame-retardent underwear on)

I know it isn't going to happen, but I would personally prefer the Ennies be more focused on d20/DnD/OGL material as that tends to be the expertise of the people on these boards that will do the majority of the voting. I understand the reasons for being broader, I just think it hurts the awards in some ways. If you can maxmize participation by the "outside" (ie. non-d20/OGL) publishers (you did well this year) and they are kept aware of the voting so that fans of those game systems (d6, d10, whatever) actively participate at a higher level this should help the recognition of the awards.

The "NG crew" had fun at the Ennies (which need move a little faster next year
) and we plan to enter the products we can this year. We are an easy sale. I know a number of other publishers are too. It is the ones in the middle, and even those refusing to submit, that you need to work on.

Patrick (who got interrupted by phone several times and is probably only half intelligible)

 

[Quickbeam]

I'd like to say good luck to everyone as well. It looks as if no matter who gets elected, there will be five strong judges.

Big props to Dextra as well, for organizing all this!

I concur wholeheartedly on both counts...and good luck to you!

 

[Cthulhu's Librarian]

Patrick, thanks very much for your comments. We appreciate you taking the time to let us know how you feel about the awards, and ways we can improve. As I said before, we do take all the publishers comments, praise, and criticism seriously.

Rich

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I'll also throw in a good luck to everyone.

I doubt I'll actually be selected, but I have to say...this year looks like its going to be interesting no matter who's up there. With a few of the big names not jumping in again, there will definitely be some new blood brought in.

 

[MavrickWeirdo]

Good luck to (in alphabetical order)

Ankh-Morpork Guard, Crothian, Cthulhu's Librarian, Diaglo, Eridanis, JediSoth, JoeGKushner, Keeper of Secrets, Mixmaster, Nakia, Quickbeam, RavenHyde, Tarondor, Teflon Billy, Trancejeremy, Umbran, and Xath

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Oooh, with that order the two youngest judges(or at least, I believe we're the two youngest, though I know I'm younger) flank the rest of you. I wonder...does that show some evil plot that none of you are currently aware of?

 

[Xath]

Oooh, with that order the two youngest judges(or at least, I believe we're the two youngest, though I know I'm younger) flank the rest of you. I wonder...does that show some evil plot that none of you are currently aware of?

It means we're the coolest.

Good luck to everyone!!!

 

[Dextra]

Heya Patrick (and everyone), keep the comments coming, I'm a-listening! I also hope that some small and medium-sized publishers will speak up and express their opinions, rather than letting some third party theorize about their wants and needs.

Your points about the shipping concerns are already in consideration, thank you.

In case I'm coming across as brusque or defensive, I'd like to say that your tone came across as very pedantic (you should do this, you need to do that, they "aren't valid"), and comments like the following are hard to handle.

I suppose my other comment is to "get off your high horse."

I know I never said anything along the lines of ENWorld being snubbed by a publisher not entering, nor that anyone should be "trashed". As the person who ran the ENnies last year and his heading the charge this year, I'm interested to know just who should dismount? And who made such a comment about trashing a publisher? A member of the Board of Directors? Judges? An ENWorld volunteer whilst working at the booth? If that ever happened again, I would like to be notified, especially if it was someone working for me so that I could discipline them/correct their behaviour (I suspect that anyone who heard the origins of my screen name -or saw me at the BoEF release party many moons ago- will have some very interesting images going through their minds with that prospect, btw ).

The only trashing I encouraged was the trashtalk I had some publishers do (BTW Clark & Bill- AWESOME!) for the Pulp Gamer PODcast.

As for the rest of your comments, there's a lot that you don't see going on. Rather than quote each individual item and say "already do that", "already done that", "done" and "done", suffice to say that the ENnies encourage publishers to participate. We don't browbeat them to participate. The ENnies are not an advertising outlet, their priority is the celebration of excellence in tabletop RPG gaming and always has been. Anything else is gravy. That said, the nominated products do enjoy an increased profile. While a larger publisher might not notice a "massive" sales spike, it makes a huge difference for the smaller publisher.

I wonder where you got the impression that we ever claimed "that this is the best place to advertise for "any game damn it""?

The "NG crew" had fun at the Ennies (which need move a little faster next year )

We were out before eleven last year, and IIRC, the actual ceremony finished up by ten thirty. Do you think that the awards dragged on, or is it more you were itching for the party afterwards? I'd like to bring this out to everyone: How did you find the length of the ceremony? If we were able to secure the hall for an additional hour- either with a live act or DJ- how many people would want to stick around?

 

[Dextra]

It means we're the coolest.

Good luck to everyone!!!

Actually, it means that the older nominees are denied their Dexterity Bonus to AC, so if either of you have levels in Rogue or a similar class, you can get in some additional Sneak Attack Damage.

ptttthbt!