Radiating Gnome
Adventurer
Final Round Judgement: Rune vs. Iron Sky - Radiating Gnome's Take
Well, this is a doozy. A couple of old gunslingers facing off for the final ... hey, wait a minute, that sounds familiar.
This is my take on the match between Rune's "Valley of Redemption" and Iron Sky's "9th Pace". We'll call them "Valley" and "Pace".
I'm fascinated that the ingredients drove both DM's to a western-feel for the adventure -- one to use a western system, the other two use western tropes in a classic D&D system.
And I think they're both good, of course. Lets look at ingredients.
Underwater Waterfall
This ingredient I find pretty frustrating just on the surface -- an underwater waterfall seems mysterious and weird -- like, how does that work? How does water fall under water? Pace takes that on, and has dome underwater in which there is a waterfall that cools the demon. Groovy. In Valley, the waterfall is there, and important, but it's a bigger stretch to see it as an underwater waterfall (and not just a waterfall), so I'm going to give Pace the edge on this one.
Wandslinger's Disgrace
In Pace, Fearson is a clearly disgraced gunslinger. So is Jebediah in Valley. The trick is that the ingredient is their disgrace, not themselves. Both uses are not particularly good. Fearson's disgrace (cheating in a duel) isn't important to the story. And Jebediah's disgrace (addiction) is not much better -- and also not particularly important. So, call this one a wash.
Doctor's Orders
In both cases, there's a doctor that is important to the story. In Valley, Doc Barton is keeping Jebedia's addiction going, and is feeding the Minotaur beef to the people. In Pace, Lil'Doc has used poisoned beef to create the illusion of a curse that only she can cure -- and that has given her control of the gang. These are moderately interesting "doc" characters, but neither really feels like it works. Barton's "orders" are what keeps Jebediah stoned and out of action. Lil'Doc gives orders by virtue of having essential control over the gang. Meh. This one isn't really singing in either entry.
Wicked Valley
Valley is set in a valley of depravity. Pace is set in a place called Wicked Valley. They both have the name, they both have the attributes. Both good.
Herald of Storms
While I like the idea that the prophecy in Jebediah's good book gives the party clues, I worry that a single set of clues for the party to possibly discover is too thin to be really playable, but for the sake of Iron DM, it's still got an edge over the Herald of Storms in Pace, which is the demon Hatepuna. I dig the demon snail, which I will get to next, but as the Herald of Storms as well, he's not as good as the presentation in Valley, so I am giving this one to Valley.
Amphibious Lurker
I love the idea of "snail related disappearances," and all the other weirdness that goes with Hatepuna. One Who is Many is good, but the wagon sized demon snail steals the show on this one. Advantage to Pace.
Glowing Basement
This one didn't really work super well in both, but I think the idea that in Valley it's an actual basement gives this one a slight edge.
Beef
There's no question about it. If we're asking, where's the beef, it's prominent in both entries. No edge there.
So, in the end, it's super tight. Pace was stronger on underwater water fall and amphibious lurker, and Valley was stronger on Herald of Storms and Glowing Basement. That's no help at all.
Playability, Writing, Presentation
When I sit down to go over an entry is to have to work with an entry that relies a lot on backstory. The balance of backstory to action is difficult, but when I read though half of an entry before seeing how the players get involved, it's hard to see the players as an important part of the adventure, which is the point of the game, after all. In a lot of cases, there's no way for the players to learn that backstory, and when that happens it appears like a collect ion of tough ingredients are being handled in the backstory and are not really part of the adventure.
So, I thin Pace suffers from this a bit more than Valley, but they both have the same sort of problem. A lot is based on the advantages of Valley's presentation -- the format used provides personalities, what they know and don't know, guidelines on how they'll interact with the players -- and its all almost immediately about the players and how they will interact.
I did like the presentation of the faction leaders and their agendas in Pace -- that was a bit thinner (because so much of the word count was spent on backstory, perhaps) but it was a good, useful set of guidelines for those characters.
So, I think Valley has an advantage over Pace in that way.
As I look over the two adventures, I keep coming back to the jarring moment in the narrative when the "journey to the distant continent" story suddenly became a western. I had to read and reread that passage to try to understand what was going on -- and I had to pull Fearson's name out of the later material in the adventure to make sure he was the wandslinger who was disgraced and who ran off to drink his life away. That confusion -- in a passage that was not really necessary to the story of the adventure (but may have been trying to work to make an ingredient fit) did set me off on the wrong foot.
RG's Judgement
Well, this is a doozy. A couple of old gunslingers facing off for the final ... hey, wait a minute, that sounds familiar.
This is my take on the match between Rune's "Valley of Redemption" and Iron Sky's "9th Pace". We'll call them "Valley" and "Pace".
I'm fascinated that the ingredients drove both DM's to a western-feel for the adventure -- one to use a western system, the other two use western tropes in a classic D&D system.
And I think they're both good, of course. Lets look at ingredients.
Underwater Waterfall
This ingredient I find pretty frustrating just on the surface -- an underwater waterfall seems mysterious and weird -- like, how does that work? How does water fall under water? Pace takes that on, and has dome underwater in which there is a waterfall that cools the demon. Groovy. In Valley, the waterfall is there, and important, but it's a bigger stretch to see it as an underwater waterfall (and not just a waterfall), so I'm going to give Pace the edge on this one.
Wandslinger's Disgrace
In Pace, Fearson is a clearly disgraced gunslinger. So is Jebediah in Valley. The trick is that the ingredient is their disgrace, not themselves. Both uses are not particularly good. Fearson's disgrace (cheating in a duel) isn't important to the story. And Jebediah's disgrace (addiction) is not much better -- and also not particularly important. So, call this one a wash.
Doctor's Orders
In both cases, there's a doctor that is important to the story. In Valley, Doc Barton is keeping Jebedia's addiction going, and is feeding the Minotaur beef to the people. In Pace, Lil'Doc has used poisoned beef to create the illusion of a curse that only she can cure -- and that has given her control of the gang. These are moderately interesting "doc" characters, but neither really feels like it works. Barton's "orders" are what keeps Jebediah stoned and out of action. Lil'Doc gives orders by virtue of having essential control over the gang. Meh. This one isn't really singing in either entry.
Wicked Valley
Valley is set in a valley of depravity. Pace is set in a place called Wicked Valley. They both have the name, they both have the attributes. Both good.
Herald of Storms
While I like the idea that the prophecy in Jebediah's good book gives the party clues, I worry that a single set of clues for the party to possibly discover is too thin to be really playable, but for the sake of Iron DM, it's still got an edge over the Herald of Storms in Pace, which is the demon Hatepuna. I dig the demon snail, which I will get to next, but as the Herald of Storms as well, he's not as good as the presentation in Valley, so I am giving this one to Valley.
Amphibious Lurker
I love the idea of "snail related disappearances," and all the other weirdness that goes with Hatepuna. One Who is Many is good, but the wagon sized demon snail steals the show on this one. Advantage to Pace.
Glowing Basement
This one didn't really work super well in both, but I think the idea that in Valley it's an actual basement gives this one a slight edge.
Beef
There's no question about it. If we're asking, where's the beef, it's prominent in both entries. No edge there.
So, in the end, it's super tight. Pace was stronger on underwater water fall and amphibious lurker, and Valley was stronger on Herald of Storms and Glowing Basement. That's no help at all.
Playability, Writing, Presentation
When I sit down to go over an entry is to have to work with an entry that relies a lot on backstory. The balance of backstory to action is difficult, but when I read though half of an entry before seeing how the players get involved, it's hard to see the players as an important part of the adventure, which is the point of the game, after all. In a lot of cases, there's no way for the players to learn that backstory, and when that happens it appears like a collect ion of tough ingredients are being handled in the backstory and are not really part of the adventure.
So, I thin Pace suffers from this a bit more than Valley, but they both have the same sort of problem. A lot is based on the advantages of Valley's presentation -- the format used provides personalities, what they know and don't know, guidelines on how they'll interact with the players -- and its all almost immediately about the players and how they will interact.
I did like the presentation of the faction leaders and their agendas in Pace -- that was a bit thinner (because so much of the word count was spent on backstory, perhaps) but it was a good, useful set of guidelines for those characters.
So, I think Valley has an advantage over Pace in that way.
As I look over the two adventures, I keep coming back to the jarring moment in the narrative when the "journey to the distant continent" story suddenly became a western. I had to read and reread that passage to try to understand what was going on -- and I had to pull Fearson's name out of the later material in the adventure to make sure he was the wandslinger who was disgraced and who ran off to drink his life away. That confusion -- in a passage that was not really necessary to the story of the adventure (but may have been trying to work to make an ingredient fit) did set me off on the wrong foot.
RG's Judgement
So, I find that I prefer Rune's entry to Iron Sky's. It's a near thing -- these are entries written by excellent Iron DMs and both are very strong. My vote is for Rune, and the Valley of Redemption.