D&D 5E (2024) 2024 Gladiator: The Narrative Dissonance

[Misanthrope Prime]

So you're NOT entertained?

 

[Older Beholder]

High level fighters can get multiple attacks.
Gladiators are high level fighters therefore they get multiple attacks.

I'm not sure I see the narrative dissonance.

 

[Zardnaar]

Gladiators always been tuned high in terms of damage. Use wisdom saves or better yet intelligence saves they get wrecked.

5E is default easy mode so they cranked up danage to compensate. 5.5 bloated the HP on a lot of monsters.

 

[Stalker0]

Gladiators always been tuned high in terms of damage.

Again just wanted to stress. gladiators are actually not high damage for their CR, in fact they are bottom of the normal damage range for a CR5.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Not the same thing. Medusa can do it at will. PCs cannot.

Come now. A full medusa is not a PC in my game. Neither is a dragon, or a balor. NPCs and PCs using similar rules applies when they are supposed to be fictionally similar.

 

[Micah Sweet]

High level fighters can get multiple attacks.
Gladiators are high level fighters therefore they get multiple attacks.

I'm not sure I see the narrative dissonance.

Mostly it's all the hp.

 

[Quickleaf]

So funny enough, I just ran another couple of gladiators in a different game (this game was 13th level, so they were just meant to be a bit of buffer).

And as soon as I did my attack, the party went "whoa that guy gets 3 attacks!!!!????"

hehe I guess when its so hard to get a 3rd attack as a pc, when an npc gets it everyone notices.

Your group’s reaction to the NPC’s number of attacks is odd - making two attacks plus an offhand shield attack is totally within the realm of what many characters do.

The Hit Point bloat for some NPCs definitely created narrative dissonance when I was playing lots of 5e. The Champion roughly has HP equivalent to an 11th+ level fighter with high Con. Putting them at 75% of 112 HP (about 80) feels more like what the upper threshold should be.

One thought experiment I use with NPCs is “does this guy have more hit points than a manticore (68)?”

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I think the new style NPC spellcasters are far worse offenders in this regard.

I'm fine with some streamlining and shortcuts with NPC mechanics, but I feel that things that are similar sort of creatures than the PCs should roughly feel like they are sameish. It is just bizarre if for example an NPC wizards have a bunch of "spells" the PCs cannot learn.

 

[Stalker0]

Your group’s reaction to the NPC’s number of attacks is odd - making two attacks plus an offhand shield attack is totally within the realm of what many characters do.

It was the 3 spear attacks straight up that caused the reaction.

 

[Quickleaf]

It was the 3 spear attacks straight up that caused the reaction.

Yeah. When I ran gladiators in Tomb of Annihilation, I always had them do 2 spears + 1 shield bash. I did that reflexively cause it was more interesting, but reflecting on what you said I think I was unconsciously balking at the idea of three spears attacks in the case of an unnamed NPC. Probably for the same reason your players felt it was odd.