D&D (2024) 2024 PHB Race discussion

[Twiggly the Gnome]

Some thoughts:

CHILDREN OF DIFFERENT HUMANOID KINDS

In principle, I don't have an issue getting rid of Half-Elf and Half-Orc, but this seem like a clunky solution. The way Level Up handles this is a lot more elegant.

HUMAN

Why are you here human, don't you know your ABCs?

ARDLING

That name. If they're the Teifling's opposite number, maybe they should call them Hochlings.

Mostly flavor issues with this one. Give the option of dialing the zoomorphic appearance traits up and down to taste. Also, why wings? Maybe I want my monkey Ardling to fly on a tiny little cloud!

DRAGONBORN

Seems a bit of a nerf from what was in Fizban's.

DWARF

Seems pretty good, except Forge Wise. If you need a "a god did it" to explain why this is there, time to go back to the drawing board.

ELF

Elves gonna elf.

GNOME

Forest Gnome's speak with animals ability is no longer at will, but the silly small or smaller beast restriction is gone. Proficency bonus uses per long rest, plus added to your spell list. I like it. If they added Fade Away I think this would be solid.

Rock gnome's get the Mending cantrip and can put any Prestidigitation effect into their contraptions. These are long standing house rules we've had, so kudos.

HALFLING

These are here.

ORC

I think these are unchanged from Mordenkainen's.

TIEFLING

Glad to see some of the pre-4E diversity returning to these guys.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

One thing I don’t like is that they’re keeping what amounts to cultural traits for some races but calling them divine gifts or whatever (e.g. The dwarf’s tool proficiencies - and in Spelljammer, the giff’s firearms proficiency).

DWARF

Seems pretty good, except Forge Wise. If you need a "a god did it" to explain why this is there, time to go back to the drawing board.

The problem is they obviously didn't want to make it a cultural trait (it would be part of the background) but part of the racial identify of all dwarves, including those that were raised totally outside of the dwarven society. So, even if all of them are focussed on a few tools, if you're taken in at birth by a stepfather who raises you in a culture where the tools are unknown, it's difficult to explain how you can innately use these tools proficiently without using genetic memory (too scifi) or "ingrained by your creator god".

@Twiggly: what would you propose to explain how heroes coming from a specific race but raised in a place where jewelry, masonry, smithery or tinkering are unknown can spontaneously develop the knowledge to be proficient with said tool without ressorting to "a wizard, sorry, a god did it)". I am sure it's possible to do better, but nothing springs immediately to my mind.

The reason I don’t like this is because it doesn’t play well with settings where the gods either don’t exist or their existence is uncertain. How does one explain these divinely-inspired cultural traits in a setting like Eberron, for example?

Yes, that's a problem that stems directly from the solution they devised.

 

[Remathilis]

Yeah, I’ll miss the half-elf. They have always been my favorite race in D&D.

One thing I don’t like is that they’re keeping what amounts to cultural traits for some races but calling them divine gifts or whatever (e.g. The dwarf’s tool proficiencies - and in Spelljammer, the giff’s firearms proficiency).

The reason I don’t like this is because it doesn’t play well with settings where the gods either don’t exist or their existence is uncertain. How does one explain these divinely-inspired cultural traits in a setting like Eberron, for example?

They're trying to walk a fine line between races keeping certain archtypical elements (giff and guns, dwarves and crafts, elves and magic, halflings and stealth) and the disassociation of culture to race. Ergo, you get a lot of "a wizard/demon/God did it" explanations for ribbon features.

That said, Eberron isn't as big a plot hole as it seems. The majority of races don't have clear origins beyond where they race first appeared, but creation stories are few and far between. Maybe dwarves were blessed by Onatar. Maybe it's a side effect of Daelkyr intervention. Maybe the dwarves don't know and don't want to find out.

(As a side note: the changes to races between MotM and 1D&D is going to force a revised Eberron book. If for nothing else to address warforged vs autognome and dragonmarks as subrace).

 

[Kobold Stew]

I've heard it suggested that the Ardling is actually intended for Planescape, snuck in to the One D&D UA, just like Owlings were snuck into the Witchlight UA, even though they were for Strixhaven.

That would make sense, and I hope you (and the voices you have heard) are correct.

It would seem a weird choice to add a race without any precedent, and with some kind of flight, in 1D&D.

 

[Kobold Stew]

My thought: When picking a half-race, choose your expression (RAW, e.g., a half-elf chooses the human or elven racial traits.)

Then, you may optionally choose one special trait to swap with another special trait of your other parental race. They should be of roughly equivalent utility/power (DM's call). For example, a half-elf using human traits could gain elven Darkvision in exchange for giving up the human Versatile trait.

I might even specify which traits are swappable. For instance, it doesn't quite seem right to have lineages/legacies swappable.

This would be an interesting approach, esp. with the swappable aspect identified explicitly. This could be easily done, maybe in a separate section like the multiclassing rules in the current PHB.

You could have a table listing the specific features that are gained/lost with mixed parentage: FOR EXAMPLE:

Human -- Versatile (but must take Skilled feat)
Ardling -- Clelestial Legacy
Dragonborn -- Draconic Ancestry and Breath Weapon
Dwarf -- Dwarven Toughness and Darkvision
Elf -- Elven Lineage
Gnome -- Gnomish Cunning
Halfling -- Luck
Orc -- Relentless Endurance
Tiefling -- Fiendish Legacy

So, to use an example of my best friend Rick's halforc/halfling chracter when we were 14, he could be small sized [i.e. building off the halfling], with Brave, Halfling Nimbleness, Naturally Stealthy, and the Orc's Relentless Endurance. (Or he could be medium sized [i.e. based on the orc], with Darkvision, Powerful Build, Adrenaline Rush, and the halfling ability Lucky.).

[[ps -- to be clear: the proposed list is to show ease of implementation, not to be dogmatic about specific traits represented.]]

 

[Micah Sweet]

The "gods" flavor is overbearing. It even comes across triumphalist.

I require the topic of religion to be gentler and more inclusive.

All those gods are part of their IP. Leveraging that IP to get people to buy anything pretty with the right name on it is WotC's entire business strategy. I'm not surprised they doubled-down on it.

Sorry, but there's money to be made.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I want the 2024 Players Handbook to only list the human race, with a note to consult with the DM for other races that exist in the setting.

The Players Handbook should be as setting neutral as possible, except for popular notions about "medieval-esque" plus the existence of magic.

All worldbuilding needs to be in the 2024 DMs Guide, relating to possible cosmologies, worlds, races, and cultures. Especially the Cleric class in the Players Handbook must not lock these assumptions in.

At the same time that the 2024 Players Handbook comes out, there needs to be a 2024 Forgotten Realms Adventurers Guide. It spells out the cosmology of the multiverse, world of Toril, races, and cultures that are familiar to 2014 5e players now. So, this 2024 FRAG (heh) is a core rulebook, and is where to find the beloved races and cultures, including elves and dwarves, among others.

But the beauty of this corebook FRAG, is it becomes easy to swap in, instead, the Eberron Adventurers Guide, Astral Adventurers Guide, Dragonlance Adventurers Guide, and so on.

Each adventurers guide rewrites any races shared with other settings, so the descriptions exactly match who the races are within a particular setting.

Most importantly, it becomes easier for the DM to swap in a homebrew world. Perhaps the homebrew "adventurers guide" starts off local, with a few sheets of paper with brief notes describing the races who inhabit a particular town. Eventually by the time the players reach level 20, there can be a substantial amount of information about the cosmology and other parts of it.

Meanwhile the 2024 Players Handbook, just has humans, as an example of how a race works mechanically, and a few medievalesque multicultural backgrounds relating to the humans.

Do you really think any of that is going to happen?

 

[Micah Sweet]

D&D used to be about worldbuilding.

True, and I do miss that emphasis. But the game also always had an implied setting that has a lot more to it than you're advocating for here.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I just.... like... how?! Wasn't that, it being so hard to play against type, and some super-specifics like 90% of the problem we've been trying to address with the whole 'change how we do 'races' in D&D' thing?

In the survey, I will advocate for a lot of language on how to deal with feat choices for beginning players.

I suspect this might be a 5e-ism. 5e half-elves, with the 4 pluses (including a Cha boost) and universally-useful extra skills really lead them into great synergy with Cha-based classes (the other suddenly-really-good thing in 5e). Half-elves in 4e, 3e, and AD&D ranged from ho-hum to sub-par to 'good only because, like humans, they can be most classes.' Also back in the TSR days when elves were sometimes coded closer to what Eladrin are today, half-elves had more role to fill as having a foot in the mysterious world of the enigmatic and retreating elves, but still having a more relatable mindset. Since the mystery of elves has been significantly diluted, this might be less so. Still, I have a great fondness for half-elves, although I don't have a problem with the way they are done here.

I doubt you would have seen so many half-elves in Critical Role if the rules for them worked like this.

 

[Micah Sweet]

that small decrease is not really that negative,

I get ASI's as much derives from your primary/secondary ability but 5ft less speed to be such a hurdle?

also, stealth on halflings feel forced into one playstyle. What if you want heavy armor? racial almost wasted completely.

Maybe if ability was agile-athlete so you can pick one skill from; athletics, acrobatics, sleight of hand, stealth.

WotC thinks new players don't want their choices to have any downsides whatsoever, even minor ones. Apparently, it "feels bad" for there to be consequences to your actions.