D&D 5E (2024) 2nd level casters are disappoint

[Frankie1969]

In 5.0, 2nd level is when most full casters get their subclass feature.
It's a big boost, easily making up for the piddly increase in casting power (one 1st level slot).
Then at 3rd level they get another 1st level slot but more importantly their first two 2nd level slots.
With nothing else, no additional features, those level boosts are fair and balanced.

In 5.24, the subclass gets delayed to 3rd level, but the casting progression stays the same.
2nd level is much less valuable, especially for Wizard. One new skill bump, big whoop.
I understand why delaying the subclass is good for game balance, but as a player I hate having dead levels.

At minimum, 2024 full casters should get both additional 1st level slots (4 total) at 2nd level.
This balances things a little bit for that one level, and leaves the rest of the game the same.

 

[Mistwell]

In 5.0, 2nd level is when most full casters get their subclass feature.
It's a big boost, easily making up for the piddly increase in casting power (one 1st level slot).
Then at 3rd level they get another 1st level slot but more importantly their first two 2nd level slots.
With nothing else, no additional features, those level boosts are fair and balanced.

In 5.24, the subclass gets delayed to 3rd level, but the casting progression stays the same.
2nd level is much less valuable, especially for Wizard. One new skill bump, big whoop.
I understand why delaying the subclass is good for game balance, but as a player I hate having dead levels.

At minimum, 2024 full casters should get both additional 1st level slots (4 total) at 2nd level.
This balances things a little bit for that one level, and leaves the rest of the game the same.

I agree Wizard powers up slower than some classes, but makes up for it with later levels. That said, I don't think 2nd level is a dead level. They get:

1) Additional first level prepared spell,
2) Additional first level spell slot,
3) Two additional first level spells in your spellbook,
4) Expertise in a skill that's on a skill list that most expertise classes cannot get.

The additional spells in your spellbook means you're likely getting a new ritual you can cast even though it's not prepared. Which, to me, is a good class power. Find Familiar, Detect Magic, Comprehend Languages, Identify, these are class powers to me.

 

[FrogReaver]

IMO all level 1-2 Full Casters are lacking now if just looking at their class features. The wizard being very lacking and bard maybe moreso at those levels.

That said, magic initiate essentially gives them an extra cast of some really good spells and access to really good spells not on their spell list. They can even be human and get 2 extra spells that way. Along with a bunch of cantrips.

Casters look quite a bit better when that part is factored in. Consider something like a human Wizard with Entangle and Goodberry, Guidance, etc.

Looking at this more optimized wizard with Find Familiar as a ritual, a bunch of stockpiled Goodberries from the night before and potentially a bunch of uses of entangle for the day, along with true strike + light crossbow, rituals and guidance, I'm feeling wonderful.

That said there's a big gap between optimized full caster at level 1/2 and non-optimized ones. Take away entangle and goodberries and my level 1 or 2 wizard doesn't feel nearly as strong.

*Entangle is probably the best level 1 spell for a level 1 Full Caster PC. The AOE and control value is absolutely huge for that level.

Ultimately one extra level 1 spell slot isn't going to make or break anything, so go for it. But maybe try out some more optimized combinations, as you may find you don't actually need to change the game, just how you approach it.

Note, Wizards in particualar are at their best in exploration challenges. They won't be top dog of combat till potentially way later, if ever.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I agree Wizard powers up slower than some classes, but makes up for it with later levels. That said, I don't think 2nd level is a dead level. They get:

1) Additional first level prepared spell,
2) Additional first level spell slot,
3) Two additional first level spells in your spellbook,
4) Expertise in a skill that's on a skill list that most expertise classes cannot get.

The additional spells in your spellbook means you're likely getting a new ritual you can cast even though it's not prepared. Which, to me, is a good class power. Find Familiar, Detect Magic, Comprehend Languages, Identify, these are class powers to me.

I totally agree. Two more rituals is a lot. Other people have to take a feat for that.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Seeing as how if one uses XP for level up, it usually only takes a single session to go from 2nd to 3rd... which means 2nd level isn't a 'dead level', so much as only 'mostly dead'. All you really need is 'True Lov'-- uh... I mean a band of orcs and an ogre or two... and you'll reach 3rd level so quick that you won't even care how 2nd level went.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Sometimes I think that lowering subclasses to level 2 had been a good idea. Not level 1. But level 2.
Casters would have had a better power progression curve. Non casters would find their identity ealier.

And if a subclass grants additional weapon and armor training, it would not have taken as long until you get it

And 2 levels of investment is already a lot for multiclassing. A whole caster level.

 

[Clint_L]

It pretty typical for the even numbered levels to feel less impactful for full casters, though level 2 does offer more than a single spell slot. For example, if you're a wizard you also learn a new spell and get to choose expertise in a skill. Given that level 2 is only a few levels, I don't mind that it is pretty simple, especially when playing with newbies who are still figuring out the game, which is hardest for full caster classes, IMO. Level 3 is the big one, for sure, and I like that they had an easy level up before hitting the big one.

My perspective is biased towards new players, as I always have 1-2 newbie campaigns running. I can totally see level 2 seeming pretty weak for experienced players, though they probably move past it pretty quickly. I'll be spending 3 games at level 2 with the new players (they did 2 games at level 1).

 

[Zardnaar]

Yup. Warlocks very good level 2. Everything else not so much.

Its the old bad now good later. Paladins kind of in a similar situation.

If I say a wizards vad or whatever im talking about first 6 levels espicially. A lot of classes get their abilities level 3 and 6.

If you stink to level 10 or just aren't god vs better options in same class.....

5.5 the martial vase clas got buffed a lot. You normally get something great most levels.

Spellcasters are kinda boring with "dead" levels. Youll get more spells. Rituals aren't sexy a lot of players dont know, dont care, don't use them.

Warlocks start falling off around 10-13 wizards start getting good the rest fall between those extremes.

Tough luck if the game ended at level 7.

Theres 4 classes in 5.0 I think are good 1-20. 5.5 has 8 imho.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

At minimum, 2024 full casters should get both additional 1st level slots (4 total) at 2nd level.
This balances things a little bit for that one level, and leaves the rest of the game the same.

I disagree with the thread title of Casters generally being disappointing at Level 2 (e.g. absolutely not true for Sorcerers and Warlocks). Level 2 is definitely a weak spot for Wizards, you aren't wrong there. And then Clerics/Druids get powerful core features at Level 2 although you could argue that Channel Divinity / Wildshape aren't very useful until they get Subclasses at Level 3.

I can fully get behind this suggestion of an additional 1st level spellslot at Level 2 for 4 total. The jump in total spellslots available at Level 3 (or at Level 5 for Artificers/Paladins/Rangers) has always looked strange to me. I'd be on board with smoothing that progression out

 

[FrogReaver]

I disagree with the thread title of Casters generally being disappointing at Level 2 (e.g. absolutely not true for Sorcerers and Warlocks). Level 2 is definitely a weak spot for Wizards, you aren't wrong there. And then Clerics/Druids get powerful core features at Level 2 although you could argue that Channel Divinity / Wildshape aren't very useful until they get Subclasses at Level 3.

I can fully get behind this suggestion of an additional 1st level spellslot at Level 2 for 4 total. The jump in total spellslots available at Level 3 (or at Level 5 for Artificers/Paladins/Rangers) has always looked strange to me. I'd be on board with smoothing that progression out

I'm not seeing the sorcerer appeal at level 2.

Warlocks are very good at early levels, primarily due to some invocations being really over tuned for low levels now. But Warlocks aren't what people normally mean when they say 'caster' in a generic situation. That's Bard/Wizard/Cleric/Druid/Sorcerer. The traditional full caster variety.