2nd Level Fighter = Military leader?

[Agback]

G'day

The bloke who ended up as Richard III of England won his first battle at the age of 16. William I when he was 15. This sort of thing happened a lot under hereditary systems. And it worked because the opposition was equally handicapted with inept commanders.

But although its not unrealistic, it is something I would discourage or forbid, under my rule that a PC's background should not be more lurid or higher-stakes than his or her adventures. If there are going to be any anticlimaxes I'll provide them myself.

Regards,


Agback

 

[booboo]

his skill list and role playing skill will be as important if not more important than his level. If you are nice you could give him like a level or two in an npc class.

 

[Paradoxish]

I like the idea of NPC classes. Rather than giving him experience for his background I might give him a few ranks in diplomacy or possibly a level of aristocrat.

Anyway, after talking with him a little more we've also decided to alter the story a bit. He trained to be a leader and head of state for most of his childhood, but in his teenage years he grew interested in martial studies and war. He trained to be a soldier, but his father kept him sheltered and tried to keep him out of harm's way. Soon open war broke out and Araderian (his character) insisted on leaving with the army. Once again looking to shelter him, his father sent him along as a lieutenant to the captain leading this army. Unfortunetely, the battle was a lost cause the captain whom he was serving fell during combat. Araderian took up arms and tried to lead what remained of his father's forces to victory, but simply was not wise enough or skilled enough to do so. He barely escaped the battle with his life and left Chyron (the city-state/kingdom he wants to be the heir to) on a self-imposed exile.

That was pretty much the best compromise I could think of without changing his background too much. This also seems a bit more logical to me, what do you guys think? This one a little more realistic for a 2nd level character?

 

[dcollins]

It makes plenty of sense for a 2nd level character to be a former powerful military leader. . . who just happened to have been permanently drained of 7 to 9 levels by undead or dying repeatedly and being raised again. (Make it clear to the player that Greater Restoration will not work on the character if you go the level drain route). Otherwise it makes no sense.

Hear! here!... That's exactly what I was about to suggest. Note that greater restoration has a time limit of 1 week per caster level, so as long as it's been a few months since the draining, they're not allowed to get them back anyway.

 

[clark411]

Part of me wants to stick to the AEG Spycraft line that levels do not have to directly correlate to the station of a person (for instance, Presidents are ~16th level, Senators ~13th, Mayors ~7th). With a bit of story, a 2nd level fighter could be a fine General if (big IF) he's got the skill sets to make it work. A human could double up on the Educated Feats to make Knowledge (History) and Knowledge (War) class skills... then max their ranks and still have two bonus fighter feats to put him above your average conscript or soldier.


The other part of me however just has to ask "if level 2 = former and potential renewed General, what will level 18 mean!!!" Will this player, who already is pretty much in the upper echelon of this continent's ranks of military leaders, want to go further up the chain in his career? Seems there's little upward mobility left, and that's usually a good part of a campaign. Being self-exiled is an easy set up for "I return, am welcomed with glorious sounding of trumpet, and retake my position" stuff. Furthermore, if he's level 2 and a military general, how will this impact his wealth and political pull? There really is little reason he couldn't walk into the armory, tell the guards to take a break, and walk out with all he could carry. Heck, he wouldn't even have to trick the guards- he could have it all delivered to his personal tent set right in the middle of his nicely guarded military camp. Also you'll have to deal with the reprocussions of his greatness as a level 2 character in the campaign with your own adversarial armies... if he's level 2 and was the best- he's in his right to be confused when you've got simple guards matching him sword for sword. Did he just get rusty? I pretty much figure that this sort of stuff is like riding a bike- you don't lose levels upon levels of competence over the span of years.

On the whole, I think he's asking for a lot more than simple status- even if he doesn't know it. You'll have to warp the entire campaign reality to suit his purposes. Furthermore, it'll create massive inequity in the relative status of the party members... level 2 rogue pauper-ish thief, level 2 ascetic monk, level 2 acolytish cleric, level 2 hedge wizard.. and level 2 Grand General of the Grandestest Grand Army in all the Lands Fighter.

Doesn't seem to be feasible as far as I can tell. Too much, too soon- with too little to strive for. Generalship is a great goal. Not a great Start, or necessarily a great past.

 

[BryonD]

I agree with the logic most people have presented that indicates that he should be higher level.

But I don't think that needs to be the only conclusion.

Nothing in the description requires that he is actually a good fighter himself.

Perhaps, as a still young man from a high station family he got preferential treatment and was given a leadership post that he did not necessarily deserve. Then through luck, fate, whatever, he gained credit for a great victory in a particular battle. Perhaps he then started to even believe that he was a great leader and this contributed to a major defeat. This plays right into the self-imposed exile part of the background.

If the player insists that the character really was a great tactical leader with numerous battles and glory in his past, then, no, I don't think it can be done easily.

 

[Voadam]

He can be low level.

He was a poor leader who was thrust into leadership too young with not enough experience/training and he caused the deaths of many through his screw ups. He got his "High command" position through nepotism and people died because of his ineptitude. He fled in grief and remorse abandoning his responsibilities. That is a fine background for a young character.

Nothing in that background says he has the skills or abilities of a great warrior, just a well connected background that he gave up.

Makes sense to me.

 

[Kyramus]

Illusions of gradeur.

potion of delusion.

slightly touched by the gods to think that he is the greatest leader in the land.

personally, I can understand it to be a goal of the character to BE such, but not at the beginning of their adventuring career.

 

[dead_radish]

A side note - someone mentioned "giving him" a level of Aristocrat - I'd check with the player on that. If the player has a specific plan for the character, especially if it includes multi-classing, a "free" level of aristocrat could play hell with him, and cause resentment later. That's another level you have to keep within one level of all else, and it slows down his advancement. You need an extra 1000 xp above your companions, you are dropping the average xp down (by being higher level), and you are limiting his pc levels to being one lower than the rest of the party.

That being said, aristocrats are actually a very decent class - d8 hp, good saves, high skill points, many class skills, a heck of a lot of starting cash. I have an Bard/Aristocrat Apprentice character that is looking very very nice for a 1st level character, and is now able to be a noble.

I also 2nd the idea that any pc claiming noble backgrounds be required to take at least one aristocrat level to start.

 

[Voadam]

I think he can still have been the level 1 prince leader of the army who screwed up and was not really cut out for it. Sounds like a great background to me.