D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Alter Self

[Lord Pendragon]

What's the +ECL for the winged template? Should be less than 4, right?

Now there's a thought... I'll run it by my DM. If he okays it, my bard might pick up Alter Self after all...

 

[LokiDR]

I played a Nimblewright for while and I had all sorts of fun with alter self. I did infiltration, intimidation, and hide in plain sight (who checks a horse?) It was what allowed me to "take off my helment" which was actually my head. With the new version, that character can't exist as something other than blatantly magical which takes all the fun out of it.

I see mages using this spell to get natural armor and that that's about it. Alter self used to be nifty, now it boring.

 

[Jhyrryl]

I never really liked the "create a race" aspect of the spell, that even shapechange can't duplicate. Now that's fixed, and it's still easy enough to find non-core races to mess with.

This restriction also has significant benefits for PCs, btw. A casting Mind Flayer can't use alter self to disguise itself as human, for instance (although disguise self is still an option).

But if they're going to make changes like this, I'd like to see hold/charm/dominate person changed to just hold, charm, and dominate respectively, and make the restriction "this spell can only affect creatures of your type".

 

[Brekke]

Well, the 3E Alter Self is, imho, the most overpowered 2nd level spell in the whole book. It couild stand to lose a bit power.

I don't agree so you can fly. Unlike the spell fly if you have wings you just can't hover over your target you have to move. Also if a dispel is cast and works and you don't have feather fall well ouch.

Wings are aslo big so you can't often use them say in a dungeon.

As for gills there are plenty of magic items that allow you to breath underwater.

It's great for disguese giving a +10 to the diffculty roll to be found out. But there is still a chance that if you roll higher enough you could be found out.

Carol

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Not at all. Alter self is now the wizard's superior personal range version of Barkskin (any of the various reptilian humanoid forms for +5 natural armor). It has a few added benefits (breath underwater, aquire swim speed, etc) and can be shared with a familiar for some interesting small magical beast forms but basically it's barkskin.

Now, Alter Self is pretty useless. Its purpose is, what?, as a wizard's high-powered Disguise Kit?

 

[LokiDR]

Not at all. Alter self is now the wizard's superior personal range version of Barkskin (any of the various reptilian humanoid forms for +5 natural armor). It has a few added benefits (breath underwater, aquire swim speed, etc) and can be shared with a familiar for some interesting small magical beast forms but basically it's barkskin.

Did we need a different barkskin? Why is it so bad that Mind Flayers can disguise themselves as human? Why shouldn't a person be able to disguise themself as a dog or pony?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Not at all. Alter self is now the wizard's superior personal range version of Barkskin (any of the various reptilian humanoid forms for +5 natural armor). It has a few added benefits (breath underwater, aquire swim speed, etc) and can be shared with a familiar for some interesting small magical beast forms but basically it's barkskin.

Okay, so basically then eliminated the Alter Self I knew in everything but name, and replaced it with a Wizard's version of barkskin.

I can deal with this. I mourn the old Alter Self and never saw it as overpowered, but if I start thinking Alter Self = Natural Armor, it definitely isn't useless.

Hmmm. Now I'm unsure. +5 natural armor is good for a light armor-wearing bard, but lacks utility...

 

[Centaur]

I never really liked the "create a race" aspect of the spell, that even shapechange can't duplicate. Now that's fixed, and it's still easy enough to find non-core races to mess with.

I personaly have always hated the fact that polymorph and Shapechange force you to assume a form from the the MM or such. You could never create a custom form. That was one of the things that was realy cool about the alter self spell.

What I think someone should do is come up with list of "features" that can be implemented through the use of a spell like alter self. If you give each of these features a point value, and limit the available points for transformation by caster level or such, then you have something really cool.

Sample features could be things like:
Wings (Sp 30, Manu Poor) 1pt.
Wings (Sp 60, Manu Standard) 3pt.
Gills 1pt.
Meld legs together like a merfolk (swim 30) 2pt.
Natural Armor +1 1pt.
NA +2 3pt.
NA +3 6pt.
etc.......

Any thoughts...?

 

[Wippit Guud]

Ooops...

You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn't change the creature type or subtype

So much for the winged template idea

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Ooops...

You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn't change the creature type or subtype

So much for the winged template idea

Ugh.

So now it's only purpose is for natural armor.