D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Alter Self

[Lord Pendragon]

Just went through all the humanoids... now that I know where to looks, only elves and troglodytes get a bonus feat.

Which is somewhat depressing, but considering the list of stuff you brought up before (particularly the skill bonuses and natural armor) Alter Self is still a nice spell.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

We've been through the natural armor and bonus feat angles; are there any 5 HD or less humanoids with size Large?

Yuan Ti Abomination might be a possibility if they reduced its HD but I can't check b/c Yuant-Ti aren't in the SRD.

 

[Wippit Guud]

Yuan-ti are both an abberation, and a template, double-whammy.

 

[Hypersmurf]

We've been through the natural armor and bonus feat angles; are there any 5 HD or less humanoids with size Large?

Most of the ones that spring to mind as possibilities are giants or monstrous humanoids.

I'm not sure why a gnoll is a humanoid but an anthropomorphic hyena is a monstrous humanoid, but hey...

-Hyp.

 

[Spatula]

Your contention is (seemingly, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, correct me if I'm wrong) that a bugbear gains Alertness and Weapon Focus (Morningstar) for being a humanoid, and gains no bonus racial feats.

That's not just my contention, that is in fact what the rules say. "A bugbear’s humanoid levels give it two feats." Every creature in 3.5E with 3 HD such as the bugbear, or a 3rd level character, has 2 feats. Plus any bonus feats. A 3rd level fighter would have 2 bonus fighter feats. A 3 HD bugbear has no bonus feats at all.

A monster gains feats just as a character does. Sometimes a creature has one or more bonus feats, marked with a superscript (B). Creatures often do not have the prerequisites for a bonus feat. If this is so, the creature can still use the feat. If you wish to customize the creature with new feats, you can reassign its other feats, but not its bonus feats. A creature cannot have a feat that is not a bonus feat unless it has the feat’s prerequisites.

Alter Self gives the caster the bonus feats of the new form because those are part and parcel of the actual creature. The non-bonus feats given in the monster descriptions are what a typical member of that race has chosen for feats. Not every bugbear has Alertness and Weapon Focus. Those feats are not a quality of bugbear-edness. Whereas Multiattack (but not Weapon Focus) is inherent to being a Troglodyte.

 

[Wippit Guud]

I find strange that Alter Self doesn't impart light sensitivity if the chosen form has it.

 

[Conaill]

Could you Alter Self into a 5-HD version of a higher HD humanoid? I.e. one that only has the first 5 racial levels? That might open up the number of choices some more.

 

[LokiDR]

No, I'm not ignoring the text of the spell itself. The spell says you gain "racial bonus feats."

Looking in the Monsters section of the SRD, it says that "Bonus Feats" are marked with a B. Not "racial bonus feats."

If a creature in the MM has a bonus feat, what other source could it have? If a feat on creature with no levels has a (B) it must come from being that race.

Looking at the text of the Bugbear entry, it says "racial feats," not, admittedly, "racial bonus feats."

You don't gain HD with alter self, it is only a limit on the spell. Would a theoretical bugbear with no HD have those feats? If those feats come from HD, they are learned, not a part of the form.

My belief is that "racial bonus feats" are those feats listed under "racial feats." So a bugbear fighter 3 might have Alertness, Weapon Focus (morningstar), Power Attack, and Cleave. He'd have two feats for being a fighter 3 (Power Attack and Cleave) and two feats just for being a bugbear (Alertness and Weapon Focus (morningstar). So a mage using Alter Self to take the form of a bugbear gets those feats that a bugbear character gets because of his race.

The bugbear section pretty clearly states that those first two feats come from the HD, in other words experience. A racial feat would be Tri-keen and multiattack or Nimblewright and all of its feats.

Your contention is (seemingly, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, correct me if I'm wrong) that a bugbear gains Alertness and Weapon Focus (Morningstar) for being a humanoid, and gains no bonus racial feats. Also, that the fact that there are no humanoids in the MM with bonus racial feats (save the elf, I was mistaken,) is irrelevant.

Alter self is not limited to humanoid. It doesn't allow a change into other types, but if you were a monsterous humanoid you could turn into another monsterous humanoid. So all types need to have the issue covered.

 

[LokiDR]

Could you Alter Self into a 5-HD version of a higher HD humanoid? I.e. one that only has the first 5 racial levels? That might open up the number of choices some more.

No. As written, you can't change the creature you are changing into to fit the requirements. The 5HD is an intenional limit.

 

[Darklone]

Wouldn't a char altered to Trog get the stench ability???