D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Archer changes

[Kae'Yoss]

And within SIXTY feet, the Tempest simply decides to charge-and-sunder -- remember, in a charge, you can move up to double your movement rate.

Eighty feet if the Tempest picked up a levelof Barbarian.

One hundred and sixty feet with a movement-buff (boots of striding and springing, expeditious retreat, whatever).

Assuming he can run in a straight line, which might be tricky with the melee fighters in the way.

The melee warrior uses cover to close to the wizard, who now has to cast defensively or suffer AoOs -- not to mention having to more-carefully place area spells so as not to suffer their effects, himself.

If cover is available.
Most wizards have a good concentration score and can risk that roll (if there's any risk at all)

My rule of thumb is, if the spell would last for 12 or more hours, it was cast prior to the encounter. And spellcasters all tend to plant their near-permanent (and true permanent) spells on their homes ... as one of the first things they DO.

Sensible enough

Wizard with (permanent) Reverse Arrows: the archer goes *poof* instead.

Only if the spell deflects all the damage from the spell (and the DR from RA is high enough not to be fooled by the magic arrows)

 

[treefrog]

test

It seems to me that using the DMG NPC characters is a perfectly valid earmark.
Having said that starting at within 35 feet seems to put the spell casters at a big disadvantage. Another disadvantage they seem to be under is they do not think to cast endure elements (!) on themselves before walking around looking for trouble (I assume they are looking for trouble since they attack right off and do not try and talk at all) As a cleric, if I have 7+1 1st level spells per day I cast 5 endure elements on myself, I want to pack divine favor and shield of faith and maybe a protection from evil (or good depending) but I'd rather have my bases cover with 5 endure elements then save my spells for when I die. I also will cast a second magic vestments (adding 3-4 to my AC (I don't remember if the 12th level cleric starts off with a magic shield or a normal))
If I win initiative or I survive the first round of arrows (Between the Endure E, and the new AC I know I do outside 35 feet and I think I do even inside 35 feet) If I see an archer looking at me I backup 20 feet and cast Wind Wall in a maze around me. If I'm safe from arrows for 12 rounds I think the results of the fight are set. Either I Super-buff myself and Dispel magic you a handful of times or I hold person you till you freeze depending on what I have prepared that day.
As a magic user it is I might only use 4 out of my 6 first level spells on endure elements (hoping I do not run into anything with a sonic attack) and pack 2 shields but I still think I survive outside 35 feet (inside 35 feet I’m not sure if I survive)

 

[Storm Raven]

Frost Worm wins initiative (22.75%). The frost worm's best attack is of course it's breath weapon. We'll assume it uses it. However, with the archer's nice +19 Reflex save and evasion, it only effectively takes 10% of the damage, for around 5 points. In response, the archers can hit 3.8 times for 37.5 per hit. The frost worm survives on 5hps (hooray!) Closing to melee, it charges, with a 77.5% chance of hitting and 23.5 average damage. The archer isn't bothered. Next round, he 5' steps back, shoots it once and it dies. Being huge, it does get an AoO, which will damage him for another 18.2125 damage, for a total of about 40hps. Its death throes inflict only 10% of 70 average, or total 47hps. Even if it doesn't use its breath weapon, preferring to close to range in round 1, it still only does about 61hps. Tough fight, but the archer survives.

Why would the Frost Worm not use its Trill ability? Given the synergy between the Trill and Breath Weapon, it seems natural for it to do that. If the Frost worm Trills, and the archer fails his save (~25% chance), then the archer doesn't get a save when the Frost Worm uses its breath weapon, and takes 15d6 of cold damage, no save (suffering 52.5 points of damage on average). If the worm survives the archer's return barrage (assuming the archer throws off the Trill when attacked, a 75% chance), it inflicts the additional roughly 40 more hit points of damage on the archer that you calculated. He suffers another 18 points of damage from the next AoO, and dies. As a result, the archer, if he loses initiative, probably gets killed about 30% of the time (given his initial chance to fail the save against the Trill, and the subsequent 25% chance to fail again after being blasted by the breath weapon).

It seems that it is a tougher fight than you thought.

 

[Pax]

Assuming he can run in a straight line, which might be tricky with the melee fighters in the way.

Don't run. Jump -- right OVER the melee fighter's heads.

If cover is available.

Tower Shield, made of darkwood perhaps, carried by an Unseen Servant cast by the fighter's wizard or sorceror buddy (perhaps from a scroll or wand the Fighter paid for).

The problem with reach weapons (if those melee fighters have them) is that it isn't natural reach, and so they can't attack enemies that are right in front of them. So as soon as he uses his reach weapon, the giants will step in. Or they have higher reach...

Then the Fighter uses a Duom or a Spiked Chain; I personally like the idea of the Duom, it's a neat weapon. And the spiked chain, well ... that leads to hit's own, entire style of combat.

Or, borrowing form Savage Species, the fighter uses a Chain Lash -- gaining flexibility of use (it can either be used as a spiked-chain-like reach and non-reach weapon, or, it can be used as a non-reach double weapon).

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Don't run. Jump -- right OVER the melee fighter's heads.

If he can jump well enough...

Tower Shield, made of darkwood perhaps, carried by an Unseen Servant cast by the fighter's wizard or sorceror buddy (perhaps from a scroll or wand the Fighter paid for).

Won't work. A tower shield is to heavy for an unseen servant.

Then the Fighter uses a Duom or a Spiked Chain; I personally like the idea of the Duom, it's a neat weapon. And the spiked chain, well ... that leads to hit's own, entire style of combat.

The same goes for the enemy: A giant using a duom or spiked chain will have an even higher reach.

 

[Pax]

If he can jump well enough...

Aren't Boots of Striding and Springing wonderful?

Won't work. A tower shield is to heavy for an unseen servant.

Okay, my bad -- simple brain fart, I thought an Unseen Servant could carry 25 pounds (a darkwood Tower Shield would weight half as much as normal, or, 22.5 pounds); turns out they can carry 20 (and drag 100, so if you made a wheeled mantlet instead of a plain tower shield ... then you could do it).

The same goes for the enemy: A giant using a duom or spiked chain will have an even higher reach.

By all of 5', using the Savage Species reach-change-with-size-change rules. *shrug* Those weapons were listed solely to point out, there ARE reach weapons that can strike adjacent foes.

 

[Al]

Ok, Storm Raven, time for some rather severe number-crunching...

The barbarian grappler:
First of all, remember even if the barbarian wins initiative, he only has a 60.6% of starting the grapple (inflicting an incidental 7 hps).

Now let's see what happens in the grapple. The barbarian wins 63.8% of the grapple checks, so each attack nets him 0.638 'succesful' grapples. Thus, to pin the archer, he takes 1.57 attacks. His remaining 2.43 attacks/round he continues to presumably make grapple checks, of which (2.43 x 0.638) 1.55 attacks are successful. Each successful attack deals an average 7 points of damage, so the barbarian can deal 10.85 damage per round for the first four rounds if they are grappling to begin with. If the archer is pinned to begin with, he can do 17.864 damage. If they are not grappling, the best the barbarian is restart the grappling, inflicting an incidental average 4.24 damage, then using attacks to pin, then using a final 1.43 attacks to deal damage. This technique will do about 10.6 damage total. The archer, it is assumed, for these four rounds, tries to escape the grapple, for which he needs to win at least two grapple checks. He has a 29.2% chance of winning two (or more), a 44% of winning one, and a 26.8% chance of not winning any. Based on this, and the numbers above, the barbarian can inflict an average 12.6 damage per round. The archer's best bet is to escape and pray that all of the barbarian's attempt to grappling again fail. Since the barb is hasted- that's pretty unlikely: only 1.7%.

This continues for four rounds, until the barbarian's haste runs out.

It then becomes a different ball-park. The archer, incidentally, is on 50hps. Going into the sixth round, with the barbarian's haste expiring, the barbarian's tactics are still best pinning the archer, since the danger is that he gets out and uses his bow. However, with only three attacks now, he average damage/round is now just 6.39 if grappling, 13.4 if pinning and 6.14 if not grappling. Average damage: 8.17 per round.

However, the archer can now come into play. If he escapes, and the barbarian fails to grapple (10.6%) he can launch his full barrage of arrows, with 3.8 attacks hitting for 37.5 damage (total 142.5). So the archer can inflict an average (0.106 x 142.5) 15.1 damage per round- i.e. more than the barbarian. After two rounds of this, the archer is on 34 points and the barb 77hps (when his rage expires).

Now, the tables begin to turn. With his rage expired, the grapple checks are 50/50. His damage drops to 1.8 if grappling, 6 if pinning and just 1.6 if not. Moreover, the archer's chances are 50% of escaping, 37.5% of breaking the pin and just 12.5% of remaining in the pin. The barb's average damage is therefore 2.225. When the archer reaches 8.9 hit points or less, the barb can change to his greataxe and end it there are then, but this will take another 11.2 rounds. The archer, meanwhile, is still using the escape from grapple, hope the barb cannot restart, and shoot tactic. His chance of escaping are 50%, and the barb has only a 47.5% chance to restart it, so the archer has a 26.25% chance of being able to act. With his 142.5 damage if he can act, he can deal an average 37.4 damage per round- or enough to kill the barb in three rounds.

Conclusion: Archer wins.

Frost Worm:

Okay, so the frost worm will go trill/breath weapon if it wins initiative (22.75%). The archer has a 20% chance to fail (not 25%, as a 5 saves). He will then take the full 52.5 damage from the breath weapon. With the archer stunned, the frost worm can attack him, hitting on 2s or better, so it can do an average 22.325 damage per round. If he isn't stunned, it can do 18 damage. In other words, the archer will die if he fails at least three times (since the frost worm can kill him in four rounds- even with death throes in can only do 99.8 damage in three rounds, and he needs two). Incidentally, there are no AoOs as the archer is an OotBI (forgot that in the original draft!). The chances of failing three times are 0.008, or 0.8%.

So you're right. I should rectify the archer's chance against the frost worm from 100% to 99.8%. My mistake .

However, this number is meaningless unless you make your character build and then see how he fares.

Edit: Corrected some of the stats.
Edit: Clarified that frost worm can only use trill/BW if wins initiative (since otherwise it is dead).

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Aren't Boots of Striding and Springing wonderful?



Okay, my bad -- simple brain fart, I thought an Unseen Servant could carry 25 pounds (a darkwood Tower Shield would weight half as much as normal, or, 22.5 pounds); turns out they can carry 20 (and drag 100, so if you made a wheeled mantlet instead of a plain tower shield ... then you could do it).

Boots: Yeah if your leap caries you high enough not to jsut jump them but to jump them without an AoO your good.

Tower shield: Strap it to tensers floating disk, it lasts hours and gives you mobile cover. Best 1st level spell in the game.

 

[Darklone]

Ok, Storm Raven, time for some rather severe number-crunching...

The barbarian grappler:
First of all, remember even if the barbarian wins initiative, he only has a 60.6% of starting the grapple (inflicting an incidental 7 hps).

Now let's see what happens in the grapple. The barbarian wins 63.8% of the grapple checks, so each attack nets him 0.638 'succesful' grapples. Thus, to pin the archer, he takes 1.57 attacks. His remaining 2.43 attacks/round he continues to presumably make grapple checks, of which (2.43 x 0.638) 1.55 attacks are successful.

Now this is interesting. The barbarian might have several attacks, but they all suffer -5 for iterative attacks... while the grapple check for the defenders stays the same IMHO? How do you rule this?

 

[Al]

Now this is interesting. The barbarian might have several attacks, but they all suffer -5 for iterative attacks... while the grapple check for the defenders stays the same IMHO? How do you rule this?

Actually, I don't think that opposed grapple checks suffer the iterative attack penalty. PHB 137 simply states 'you can make an opposed grapple check as an attack'. I'm not entirely sure, but I've assumed that both the attacker and defender use their full grapple check at all times. All of the numbers in my example are based on this supposition, so feel free to correct me if this is wrong.