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D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Archer changes

Shard O'Glase

First Post
That's the thng I'm looking forward too most in 3.5, grappling rules that are easy to understand. I can't give the rules answer, but how I do it Darklone is the defenders AB drops by -5 each time until they are at their lowest iterative AB and then it stays at that level for any more checks.
 

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Hypersmurf

Moderatarrrrh...
Defender in an OGC always uses highest BAB... attacker does indeed use iterative bonuses.

It's clarified in an FAQ, I believe.

-Hyp.
 

Al

First Post
Hypersmurf said:
Defender in an OGC always uses highest BAB... attacker does indeed use iterative bonuses.

It's clarified in an FAQ, I believe.

-Hyp.

Thanks for the clarification, Hyp. This fact does of course skew it in favour of the archer, though for the purposes of the exercise I preferred to err on the side of caution.
 

Kae'Yoss

First Post
Shard O'Glase said:

Tower shield: Strap it to tensers floating disk, it lasts hours and gives you mobile cover. Best 1st level spell in the game.

Now it get's real scary! :D

[edit]
Now I know what the Leadership feat is for: get people to carry your tower shield.
 
Last edited:

Technik4

First Post
Archer vs DMG NPCs

Barb - as you stated, the archer will probably woop the barb. The barbs best chance is a grapple. Couple things you forgot to give the barb - DR 1, use of Dodge Feat. Also, to settle the equipment debate, in my book there is a column "Other Normal Gear" which includes a climber's kit, a silver dagger, and 3 flasks of alchemist's fire.

Cleric - with a scroll of wind-walk it seems like the cleric would just leave, or at very least distance himself from the archer if he won initiative (in order to cast spells at a range). If he lost initiative, he is probably dead meat.

Rogue - first thing the rogue will do is gulp down a potion of invisibility. He can then proceed to buff himself as needed or decide the archer looks too deadly and retreat perhaps past a trap he set earlier.


Anyway, you were mostly spot on. Archers are incredibly sick and if the enemies don't attempt to deal with them, they shine all the brighter. Hopefully something will be done about GMW (one of your big advantages over meleeist, allowing you to use elemental elemental bows and arrows instead of +3 bows and arrows) and bow and arrow stacking.
 

Cedric

First Post
Hmm...I was thinking of playing an Elven Cleric, who worships the Elven God of Archery (from FRCS) and taking the Elf and the War domains.

Of course, I was going to take all of the archery feats. I would probably end up taking the Bracers of Archery at some point...

Of course now...after having read most of this thread, I don't know if I have the stomache for it anymore.

Cedric
 

LokiDR

First Post
Cedric said:
Hmm...I was thinking of playing an Elven Cleric, who worships the Elven God of Archery (from FRCS) and taking the Elf and the War domains.

Of course, I was going to take all of the archery feats. I would probably end up taking the Bracers of Archery at some point...

Of course now...after having read most of this thread, I don't know if I have the stomache for it anymore.

Cedric

I saw WattsHumphrey play that in a game. It was beyond sick. Don't forget persistant spell.
 

Elder-Basilisk

First Post
Nahh. Take the Shevarash, the Elven God of Vengeance and hatred (in FRCS Web Enhancement) instead. That way, you have an excuse for your character to look for a reason to unload his arrows into anything he doesn't like and you don't have to worry about eating what you kill. (Solonor Thelandira is also the god of hunting).

Cedric said:
Hmm...I was thinking of playing an Elven Cleric, who worships the Elven God of Archery (from FRCS) and taking the Elf and the War domains.

Of course, I was going to take all of the archery feats. I would probably end up taking the Bracers of Archery at some point...

Of course now...after having read most of this thread, I don't know if I have the stomache for it anymore.

Cedric
 

Celtavian

Dragon Lord
Re

I hope they eliminate the stacking of arrow and bow enhancement bonuses. The bow and arrow should be considered one weapon.

Archery is more powerful than melee in D&D by leaps and bounds when played by an even halfway intelligent player.

Archery:

Advantages:
1. May attack opponents at range including flying, swimming, concealed behind an arrow slit (Not so hard a shot for skilled archers), etc, etc.

2. Full strength bonus for damage with extra attack from Rapid Shot.

3. Bows can be strengthened to 18 str or above depending on the leniency of the DM or what magic items you allow.

4. Almost always get to make a full attack action because can attack from range.

5. May kite creatures, especially effective with boots of striding and springing or expeditious retreat/Haste spell. This prevents a creature from attacking you while allowing you to slowly widdle it down with arrows.

6. Rarely struck in combat. Enemy must make a concentrated effort of bypassing frontline melee fighters to attack archery. (Feats make it very easy for an archer to fire into melee combat effectively.)

Disadvantages:
1. May run out of arrows.

I have rarely witnessed this happen. With items like Quiver of Elhonna or a bag of holding, most archers can carry a near limitles supply of arrows. The Greater Magic Weapon or Arcane Archer prc can easily make them all magical.

They could make it so that GMW only affects a small number of arrows, but that would be less fun for the archer. Better to just eliminate the stacking bonus.

2. May not have powerful enough magic arrows to strike a creature.

Rarely have I seen this happen either. In the new edition of D&D, it will be easier for an archer to carry a specific type of arrow made for damaging specific creatures than for a melee to have the correct weapon.

3.5 definitely favors the archer when damage reduction is concerned.

3. Cannot fire in melee.

Unless of course they have a Prc Or feat that allows them to do so.

What archer in their right mind enters melee? None. The only time an archer will have to enter a prolonged melee is if they are trapped in a room with a creature who can attack the entire room. They can easily move back or maneuver for better shots.


There are currently no advantages to being a melee except maybe gaining a 1.5 str bonus if you are a 2-handed weapon fighter or extra attacks for a 2 weapon fighter.

These advantages are more than offset by the fact that you have to a take a severe beating to engage a creature. I still remember my Paladin fighting an Elder Earth Elemental in melee combat and getting smashed, while the archer did equal damage to the creature while not being touched.

After the fight, the archer was unscathed and ready to fight while my Paladin was severely wounded and required alot of healing. Yet, my paladin did no more damage than the archer.

Archers are powerful in D&D. Much more powerful than melee. There range even allows them to fight spellcasters far more effectively than a melee could ever manage. Spells like Protection from Arrows are a joke against an archery with enhancement bonuses that stack.

Anyone arguing for enhancement bonuses to remain as they are with the bow and arrows is a pure power gamer. Stacking archery bonuses is almost as a bad as Harm in the broken department in my experience. I am glad they are fixing it. We already play a house rule where bow and arrow enhancement bonuses don't stack, and I will be glad if they make this type of house rule official.
 

Kae'Yoss

First Post
Elder-Basilisk said:
Nahh. Take the Shevarash, the Elven God of Vengeance and hatred (in FRCS Web Enhancement) instead. That way, you have an excuse for your character to look for a reason to unload his arrows into anything he doesn't like and you don't have to worry about eating what you kill. (Solonor Thelandira is also the god of hunting).

I have to disagree: Shaverash is the Elven God of Hatred against the Drow, not hatred against everything. Also, he himself has sworn never to smile again until the drow are extinct, and his clerics never smile, either. The player might not like that.

Solonor, on the other hand, is serious, but not to the extent of the hatefilled Black Archer. They also hunt down brutal monsters or those that destroy without sense (his main foes are Malar and Talos). So you don't have to find an excuse that you turned those guys into a pincushion: they were defiling the woods, threatening nature.... And you sure don't have to eat a beast of malar...

Cedric said:
Hmm...I was thinking of playing an Elven Cleric, who worships the Elven God of Archery (from FRCS) and taking the Elf and the War domains.

I'm playing such a cleric. It's nice. My advice for this: High Dexterity and Wisdom (of course). You might want enough Int to get a bonus, cause you need some skills: Knowledge (religion) (especially if you want to become a divine disciple or hierophant), Concentration (you might still find yourself in reach of the enemy), Spellcraft (never hurts) and of course Spot (an archer-cleric of an archer-deity without Spot is worse than a dwarf without beard!). A little constitution is handy, too (but you can easily boost that with bears endurance, or even empowered bears endurance). Put a low score in charisma (though that makes you bad at turning undead), cause Solonor-worshippers are usually serious and even grim, eschewing frivolous celebrations cause they distract from your duties.

Of course, I was going to take all of the archery feats. I would probably end up taking the Bracers of Archery at some point...

Don't forget to pick up some metamagic feats: Extend spell will make buffs last longer (you will be happy with that, and your party will thank you, too), Persistant spell will be of tremendous use later (persistant divine favor as 5th-level spell, persistant divine power as 8th), and empower spell will further help you with your buffs (bull's strength, bears endurance, and, if you take the elf domain, cat's grace, too)

Of course now...after having read most of this thread, I don't know if I have the stomache for it anymore.

Yea, that combo can be pretty powerful (and we did change the rules so bow and ammo doesn't stack but the bow bestows it's power upon the ammo).

The character is pretty powerful, but he has to: I'm the only one that can really help the others with buffs (we have another cleric, but that one's multiclassed as paladin so she doesn't have that much cleric spells. And our wizard banned transmutation...), one of the two healers, one of the damage-dealers with weapons, the only one that can use transportation magic (again, the wizard and his banned transmutation: I'll be the only party member that can use teleport, with miracle) , one of two party healers (although the other cleric could manage that alone, I think), and now that the wizard will be able to attend to sessions only now and then, I'll have to use spells of mass destruction, too (the fact that we now enter the Abyss and most of the cleric's damage spells deal fire damage doesn't help with that...)
 

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