[3.5] Bard Spell list Changes Summary

[RigaMortus]

Theres another question... Can you list the description of Weapon Finesse?

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Everyone lost the only bull's strength worth having. . . .

oh, bards lose "bull's strength" too?

-vj

 

[Ruvion]

According to the post above listing bard's new spell repertoire...no, bads do not lose Bull's Strength, nor Cat's Grace, nor Toad's Endu...err....they never had that one. My bad.

Come to think of it, I think they should rename Bear's Endurance to Toad's Endurance...this should nicely torment the already frustrated mages with the now shafted toad familars.

 

[The Other Deej]

Ok, I can understand losing Mage Armour, since the failure is gone for light armour. But taking away Magic Weapon? That's just wrong, IMHO

Joeblow sed:

It is odd to me that the bard gets most Cure spells, but not Cure Minor Wounds. Just wonder what the reasoning could be.

What I can't figure out is they give Bards healing spells, but they can't use any of the Cure scrolls. But they can use the cure wands. Just another oddity I was hoping they may fix.

 

[ShadowStar]

It is odd to me that the bard gets most Cure spells, but not Cure Minor Wounds. Just wonder what the reasoning could be.

Very handy spell, especially at low level, at the least you can save people who are at negative HP.

Looked again just to make sure and sure enough Cure Minor isn't on the list. Apparently they just didn't want Bards getting healing spells at 1st level.

 

[LazarusLong42]

What I can't figure out is they give Bards healing spells, but they can't use any of the Cure scrolls. But they can use the cure wands. Just another oddity I was hoping they may fix.

Well, they can use cure scrolls scribed by themselves or another bard.

 

[Fenes 2]

Hmmm... I think keeping the arcane spellcasting failure for armor should compensate leaving mage armor on the list.

 

[Skaros]

Hmmm... I think keeping the arcane spellcasting failure for armor should compensate leaving mage armor on the list.

It way overcompensates.

I'd much rather wear my mithril chain shirt +5 with no penalty than have the ability to enjoy a measly +4 armor bonus from mage armor.

Skaros

 

[Andy_Collins]

And can you imagine a bard taking speak with animals and speak with plants?

There are many spells on the bard list that I don't imagine many bards choosing to learn. However, that doesn't eliminate the utility of the spell appearing on the spell list, since it opens up scroll and wand use of those spells. (I've found in my campaign that the bard tends to become a repository for scrolls and wands that the primary spellcasters don't want, which simply adds to the character's amazing versatility.)

Few bards may learn speak with animals, but a wand of speak with animals is a really handy item for wilderness-based parties. I don't imagine many bards will pick up glitterdust as one of their early spell choices, but a couple of scrolls of glitterdust are great against invisible opponents (particularly since see invisibility is Brd3 now).

Between a larger spell list and more skill points for spending on UMD, the average bard should be able to use just about any magic item the party finds. That's a significant "hidden" feature of the class, IMO.

As for spells deleted from the list, I aimed to eliminate spells that were about pure offense or defense, or that enhanced objects (rather than people). Bards also tend to be better at causing effects than they are at overcoming those effects (invisibility at 2nd, but see invis at 3rd, for instance).

Bards in 3.5 are about making themselves and their allies better, and about really messing with their opponents' heads without necessarily delivering a pile of damage. With the right spells/feats/items, a bard can make an effective enchanter, illusionist, or even a transmuter (focusing on buffing and enhancing of allies rather than transmuting objects).

 

[coyote6]

Bards in 3.5 are about [...] really messing with their opponents' heads

Why split emotion up?

Have their spells known increased? the 3.0 bard doesn't really get enough known spells to make much use of the spell list they have; so extra spells learnable isn't much help. Sure, being able to use lots of items is nice, but it is entirely dependent on getting those items -- it's like favored enemy, but worse (not only do you depend on the GM giving you the right situations, you also depend on the other players -- if the ranger takes the wand of speak with animals, oops).

Besides, as you pointed out, with UMD, who cares what spells are on their list?