[3.5] Bard Spell list Changes Summary

[splitinfinitude]

I wish spell DC's would scale for bards like other casters. Oh, well. At least they have otto's irresistable dance

Now we know why gnome preferred class is bard - look at all the shadow spells! This is pretty close to the old illusionist spell list.

 

[JoeBlank]

Joeblow sed:

Thats JoeBlank to you, buddy!

An honest mistake, or a humor attempt? (If it is the later, it worked, as I laughed when I saw it.)

 

[The Other Deej]

Thats JoeBlank to you, buddy!

An honest mistake, or a humor attempt? (If it is the later, it worked, as I laughed when I saw it.)

Oops, in the words of the aliens to the Cows of South Park "Moo, moo moo" Strictly an honest mistake when sneaking replys in at work and no time to confirm what the name was I thought I remembered it right.

I'll dedicate the first 5 HP of damage my Cleric of Bleredd takes in my game tonight for punishment

The Other Deej Chick

 

[Fenes 2]

It way overcompensates.

I'd much rather wear my mithril chain shirt +5 with no penalty than have the ability to enjoy a measly +4 armor bonus from mage armor.

Skaros

Well, I'd rather have the mage armor.

 

[JoeBlank]

Oops, in the words of the aliens to the Cows of South Park "Moo, moo moo" Strictly an honest mistake when sneaking replys in at work and no time to confirm what the name was I thought I remembered it right.

I'll dedicate the first 5 HP of damage my Cleric of Bleredd takes in my game tonight for punishment

The Other Deej Chick

No harm, no foul. But I'll take the HP dedication if it makes you feel better about it.

(And it was funny.)

 

[chalcedony]

Originally posted by Andy_Collins

There are many spells on the bard list that I don't imagine many bards choosing to learn.[...]it opens up scroll and wand use of those spells.

Why split emotion up?

Have their spells known increased? the 3.0 bard doesn't really get enough known spells to make much use of the spell list they have; so extra spells learnable isn't much help. Sure, being able to use lots of items is nice, but it is entirely dependent on getting those items -- it's like favored enemy, but worse (not only do you depend on the GM giving you the right situations, you also depend on the other players -- if the ranger takes the wand of speak with animals, oops).

Besides, as you pointed out, with UMD, who cares what spells are on their list?

Shadow said that the spell progression doesn't change.

Isn't it kinda wierd to put a spell in and expect people not to take it, because it could appear in a wand or scroll? After all, there's always UMD. And with the 6 skill points a Bard would be pretty lame not to max it now. Bards have penalties for crafting items anyway (unless that's been fixed in the new DMG) so most wands like these would be randomly generated.

Splitting emotion into four - four! spells is really heavy, I think. It epitomized the Bard's ability to affect the minds of those around him. Was it that overpowered?

That said, I like the new spell list overall. It is admittedly more realistic.

I have a question now - since inspire courage, fascinate, and maybe some other bard songs are now more dependent on the bard's level, would a bard taking the virtuoso PrC take his virtuoso levels into account when calculating the effects of these songs?

 

[tarchon]

Man, and I was just getting over all the spells I lost when I converted my bard from 2E.
I am glad to see Comprehend Languages on the list though; that was glaring omission in 3E, as were a bunch of those illusion spells.
Knocking Summon Instrument down from 2nd level to cantrip alleviates its ridiculousness from Song and Silence too. I mean, I could use up one of my 4 2nd level slots just in case I lose my lute, fife, and tambourine at the same time OR I could just learn to sing with one of my 10 Perform ranks... hm....
I might like Speak With Animals, but probably not worth it as a 3rd level. Seems like 2nd would be a better fit for it.

 

[rjoyner6]

I asked ShadowStar about using Virtuoso levels for bard songs, and he said that the levels must be bard levels. This is going to have a definitie effect on my RPGA bard character: I'd been planning to pick up a level or two in Virtuoso just so I could get a bunch of ranks in Intimidate and pump my Will save, but if it's going to adversely affect my bardic music I probably won't.

 

[Xanthril]

Bardic changes

Overall, I am pleased with the changes.

I really like the following change:

Now the weapons are All Simple + Longsword, Rapier, Sap, Short Sword, Shortbow, and whip.

"And" instead of "or" makes a huge difference. Now my bard can have a shortbow and shortsword to go with her longsword.


I'm going to miss Mage Armor, but I can easily replace it with TUL, Comprehend Lang, or the dramatically improved Identify and be quite happy.

Second level gives you Alter Self which is awesome, there is the flight ability to replace the lost Levitate.

 

[chalcedony]

I asked ShadowStar about using Virtuoso levels for bard songs, and he said that the levels must be bard levels.

That's sad... giving up BAB and Reflex saves for a song every level seemed balanced enough. After all aren't virtuosos essentially Bards who focus on their songs?

Oh well maybe they'll update Song and Silence or something.