D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 changes now that we've had time, a rambling, babaling comentary
- Thread starter Shard O'Glase
- Start date
Vraille Darkfang
First Post
As a DM, I can honestly say 3.5 is a HUGE improvement over 3.0.
The problem is the players never see it, and most DM's will never notice it.
It's the Monster Types becoming more like Class Levels. I can now create/modify all sorts of monster quickly in my head as I know they get 1 feat/3 levels skill points per HD, all sorts of things.
I greatly prefer 3.5 because of this drastic change. But, again, Players won't ever notice it.
From a Player's standpoint I'd call 3.5 a 3.1. Overall a positive change, but not a drastic one (or a completly positive one).
Some changes I've really come to like.
1. Lesser Buff Spell Durations. While 1 minute pre level is too low, the give up a 2nd level spell to have +1d4+1 to a stat was really overdone. I mean I had 3.0 clerics with no 2nd level spells, but the party had a grand total of +40 to stats.
2. XP calulations. As a DM this is cumbersome. But I game wiht older gamers who can't make it to every game. The lower level gaining more XP alows them to avoid falling behind. (I also built a XP Caclulater Spreadsheet so I just have to put in the CR's the party beat & it gives me each player's XP).
3. Pokemount. While I allow players to take the old 3.0 if they want to, the Pokemount make a lot more sense (from a game mechanic). If you have a heavy warhorse, how to you take him into a Dungeon? Lots of players never bothered (from 2nd ed on) never bothered with a special mount as you had to leave him up at the dungeon entrance anyway, even if it eventually opened up into a massive underdark cavern later. The 3.5 way, I see a lot more Paladin's picking up combat feats & detailing their mounts as they get to Bring Them With Them Anywhere. The Mount has a more prevelant role in traditional Dungeon Delves.
So, I DM only 3.5. I'll play 3.0 (ranger excepted) or 3.5.
The problem is the players never see it, and most DM's will never notice it.
It's the Monster Types becoming more like Class Levels. I can now create/modify all sorts of monster quickly in my head as I know they get 1 feat/3 levels skill points per HD, all sorts of things.
I greatly prefer 3.5 because of this drastic change. But, again, Players won't ever notice it.
From a Player's standpoint I'd call 3.5 a 3.1. Overall a positive change, but not a drastic one (or a completly positive one).
Some changes I've really come to like.
1. Lesser Buff Spell Durations. While 1 minute pre level is too low, the give up a 2nd level spell to have +1d4+1 to a stat was really overdone. I mean I had 3.0 clerics with no 2nd level spells, but the party had a grand total of +40 to stats.
2. XP calulations. As a DM this is cumbersome. But I game wiht older gamers who can't make it to every game. The lower level gaining more XP alows them to avoid falling behind. (I also built a XP Caclulater Spreadsheet so I just have to put in the CR's the party beat & it gives me each player's XP).
3. Pokemount. While I allow players to take the old 3.0 if they want to, the Pokemount make a lot more sense (from a game mechanic). If you have a heavy warhorse, how to you take him into a Dungeon? Lots of players never bothered (from 2nd ed on) never bothered with a special mount as you had to leave him up at the dungeon entrance anyway, even if it eventually opened up into a massive underdark cavern later. The 3.5 way, I see a lot more Paladin's picking up combat feats & detailing their mounts as they get to Bring Them With Them Anywhere. The Mount has a more prevelant role in traditional Dungeon Delves.
So, I DM only 3.5. I'll play 3.0 (ranger excepted) or 3.5.
The Souljourner
First Post
Pokemount and 1 min/level buffs are about the only things I don't like. Almost everyone I think can agree that 1 hour per level was too good for the buff spells, but 1 minute per level is too low. 10 min/level would have been perfect. Long enough to last a couple encounters, short enough so it's not an autocast in the morning. Pokemount is just dumb, and doesn't last long enough to ride all day, so can't be used as a main mount. Oh, the simplification of cover rules annoys me, but it's not a big deal.
Weapon Sizes - benefit! It's not at all difficult to keep track of, and it make SO much more sense.
Facing & Square Bases - Benefit! D&D never had facing, and yet it had monsters with non-square bases. How does that work? It doesn't. A horse isn't 10x10. But a human isn't 5x5 either. It's how much room they need to properly manuever
Squeezing - rules for what happens when the aforementioned "not actually a 5' cube" person is fighting in a space that isn't really big enough. Good thing.
Classes - holy crap, benefit! Rangers sucked now they rock. Bards got a much needed boost. Monks got a needed tweak (still can be a problem, but such is life).
DR - Huge benefit! Everyone says you need a golf bag, but you don't. All DRs went down. You can now actually beat a monster *without* having the exact right weapon. That was the whole point. It's more flavorful, and it reduced the "well, I'm useless this fight" which could sometimes happen (DR 50/+5? Ooooh kaaay....)
Spells -
Haste - Benefit! It was disproportionately good on spellcasters, since it doubled their power and generally added much less than that to a fighter. Now it's a significant bonus, but not game breaking in my experience.
Identify - Benefit! 8 hours to identify one property of one item? Good lord, every time you go on a half day adventure you'd need a week to figure out what your items do. If you want to play that way, cool, go for it. Not me. One hour and 100gp is plenty of incentive not to do it in the middle of a dungeon.
I could never, ever play 3.0 again after going to 3.5. Honestly, the people who talk about sticking with 3.0 baffle me. It's not quite as bad as 2nd edition, but there's just a level of refinement in 3.5 that leaves a gaping hole when I look back at 3.0.
-The Souljourner
Weapon Sizes - benefit! It's not at all difficult to keep track of, and it make SO much more sense.
Facing & Square Bases - Benefit! D&D never had facing, and yet it had monsters with non-square bases. How does that work? It doesn't. A horse isn't 10x10. But a human isn't 5x5 either. It's how much room they need to properly manuever
Squeezing - rules for what happens when the aforementioned "not actually a 5' cube" person is fighting in a space that isn't really big enough. Good thing.
Classes - holy crap, benefit! Rangers sucked now they rock. Bards got a much needed boost. Monks got a needed tweak (still can be a problem, but such is life).
DR - Huge benefit! Everyone says you need a golf bag, but you don't. All DRs went down. You can now actually beat a monster *without* having the exact right weapon. That was the whole point. It's more flavorful, and it reduced the "well, I'm useless this fight" which could sometimes happen (DR 50/+5? Ooooh kaaay....)
Spells -
Haste - Benefit! It was disproportionately good on spellcasters, since it doubled their power and generally added much less than that to a fighter. Now it's a significant bonus, but not game breaking in my experience.
Identify - Benefit! 8 hours to identify one property of one item? Good lord, every time you go on a half day adventure you'd need a week to figure out what your items do. If you want to play that way, cool, go for it. Not me. One hour and 100gp is plenty of incentive not to do it in the middle of a dungeon.
I could never, ever play 3.0 again after going to 3.5. Honestly, the people who talk about sticking with 3.0 baffle me. It's not quite as bad as 2nd edition, but there's just a level of refinement in 3.5 that leaves a gaping hole when I look back at 3.0.
-The Souljourner
dcollins
Explorer
Souljourner, can't help but say I find it a bit ironic that you under "spells" you can name 2 benefits and overlook the I don't know, 50 or so other changes all over the spell rosters. Especially when:
No, 8 hours to identify a number of items equal to your level.
The Souljourner said:
No, 8 hours to identify a number of items equal to your level.
dcollins said:
True but ony the most basic function of each item.
Now it is 1 hr and "all" magical properties of a single item.
Big incentive to place Identify on scrolls IMO.
But I agree the 3.5 version is an improvement. No longer do you need to worry that you missed something - now you know you got it all with one casting.
The Souljourner
First Post
dcollins said:
I was just responding to other people's comments about spells they didn't like.
There are a multitude of good changes to spells, I just didn't feel like listing out every one. Sure, there were some stupid things (shadowy illumination, anyone?), but for the most part, I think 3.5 spells are an improvement.
-The Souljourner
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