D&D (2024) 2024 PHB - A much too early review

[Mistwell]

Lots of player of the game never buy the DMG so will never have access. So having rules in the DMG isn't a fix.

It's an optional rule which needs DM approval now, not a 100% player option.

 

[sevenbastard]

It's an optional rule which needs DM approval now, not a 100% player option.

I don't think it's an optional rule.

The side bar in page 38 of the 24 PHB says you can take a background from the 14 PHB it does not say you need to ask the DM to do that. The 14 PHB on page 125 says you can customize the backgrounds in it. So RAW you can build your own background. It's just weirdly hidden. They could have easily reprinted the verbiage from page 125 of the 14 PHB in the 24 PHB and made it easier on everyone.

Now I think that many DMs are going to forbid content from the 14 rules in thier games. But WOTC can't recomend that as they are adement it's not a new edition.

also as the 24 backgrounds don't have a Feature the 14 backgrounds are actually all slightly better now as nowhere does it say in 24 that you don't get the Feature if you take a 14 background.

As a DM I would NOT grant them, but RAW they still exist. So taking the Outlander Background then customizing it as you want still give you the ability to feed your party.

 

[Mistwell]

I don't think it's an optional rule.

Is there a rule for it in the PHB? No. It's rumored, and only rumored, that it might be in the DMG. That will make it a rule at the option of the DM.

The side bar in page 38 of the 24 PHB says you can take a background from the 14 PHB it does say you need to ask the DM to do that.

Right, so we agree it's optional at the discretion of the DM. Why are you disputing this? Here is the specific language from 2024 to make it clear this is the new rule. Page 36 of PHB 5.24, "Choose your character’s background, and write it on your character sheet. You can choose any of the backgrounds detailed in chapter 4, and your DM might offer additional backgrounds as options."

The 14 PHB on page 125 says you can customize the backgrounds in it. So RAW you can build your own background.

We're back to "it's an optional rule which needs DM approval now, not a 100% player option."

The rule has changed. This isn't rumor, the rule HAS changed. It now says variance from what's in the 2024 backgrounds is at DM discretion. Not player discretion anymore. That's the new rule.

It's just weirdly hidden. They could have easily reprinted the verbiage from page 125 of the 14 PHB in the 24 PHB and made it easier on everyone.

Yes which should tell you it was a choice they made. They CHANGED. THE. RULE. It's not a mistake. There are many rules they changed and this is one of the changes they made. This is no longer at the discretion of the player only it now needs DM approval.

As a DM I would NOT grant them, but RAW they still exist. So taking the Outlander Background then customizing it as you want still give you the ability to feed your party.

Sure if your DM approves using a 2014 background, it can work that way. Which makes it an optional rule.

 

[sevenbastard]

Is there a rule for it in the PHB? No. It's rumored, and only rumored, that it might be in the DMG. That will make it a rule at the option of the DM.



Right, so we agree it's optional at the discretion of the DM. Why are you disputing this?

Sorry I miss typed ( edited my post).

Page 38 does not Say you need to ask the DM for permission.

Bad error from using my phone.

So I get why you think my argument makes no sense. But with correction it is more clear.

 

[Mistwell]

Sorry I miss typed ( edited my post).

Page 38 does not Say you need to ask the DM for permission.

Bad error from using my phone.

So I get why you think my argument makes no sense. But with correction it is more clear.

It does say that though two pages earlier on page 36 . I quoted it directly. It literally says that, "You can choose any of the backgrounds detailed in chapter 4, and your DM might offer additional backgrounds as options." That's really quite clear. If you want backgrounds not in the book, it will be up to your DM to offer them as options. It's no longer strictly a player choice now to use a background not in the PHB. This is Rules As Written a DM decision now.

 

[Vael]

So, finally got my hard copy. And I have to give the writers and designers a lot of credit, this is a well put together book. The reorganization and general improvements to readability and accessibility alone make this a worthy upgrade. Chapter One, in particular, is very well done. I think a lot of 5e's popularity comes from being the most accessible version of DnD, and this PHB is the most accessible version of 5e.

 

[sevenbastard]

I'm not a rules lawyer so this shouldn't be taken as legal advice.

But I think the "if" in the side bar gives you implied permission to use a 2014 backgrounds and explains how to do so. Yes it contradict the verbiage on backgrounds you qoute, but this is a specific example so I think it means it's legal.

More important to all rules lawyering is past interpretation of the law, and I think WOTC has spilled enough digital ink that you can use old books that combined with this side bar it is legal to use old backgrounds

Again it's weird that the only real reference to using 2014 stuff is this one sidebar.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The bits I have seen bother me too much. I really don't like the change in tone. There's less flavour, I have Level Up if I'm in the mood for D&D. I have a selection of OSR (OSE, Shadowdark, Black Sword Hack and Mausritter) when I'm in the mood for that style.

2024 is focussing even more on spells. I don't like the bonus actions for potions, the new surprise rules, and the default lack of background customization. I don't like the shift to more rulesy language with actions and conditions. And I really dislike the ranger being even more magicky.

2024 is not a huge change. I get that but it's enough to turn me off, especially since there are so many 5e variations out there that I prefer. Ghostfire is updating Grimhollow to the new 2024 ruleset but there is going to be huge customization and flavour with their background system. They also have a cool variety of species. I'm going to back that version of 2024 D&D.

From what I've seen (and I've seen a lot, even if I won't watch hype videos), while none of the changes are huge, there are a lot of them, and for my part all of them are either unwelcome or represent shifts I feel were better handled in Level Up.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's just annoying, and a design choice I happen to disagree with. Doesn't help that it's a PITA with DDB.

Give me time, I'm sure I'll find something else. Like ... dwarves seem to have really gotten the short end of the stick in comparison to other species.

Too bad. I love dwarves.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah, I agree. I mean, if I want to play a 4 foot tall human, cool. I always could and the averages chart didn't stop me. The random height and weight charts just gave me the general average and the standard variation for the majority of the population, it's a starting point not the limit.

What it is is another lost worldbuilding tool.