D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Help my bard contribute [Thanks guys!]

[Lord Pendragon]

Okay, so I'm going to be playing a Bard in a new 3.5 game. He'll be wielding a rapier and buckler. Now, I know that a bard isn't meant to be a damage dealing machine, but the more I think about it, the more I have the feeling that more than merely doing less damage, he'll be doing insignificant damage.

Basically, he'll be doing 1d6+1 with a rapier. In combat he's basically a rogue, but without any sneak attack dice. He's a wizard without any fireballs. He's a druid without wildshape or an animal companion.

Now I"m not complaining, really. I like my character concept and fully intend to enjoy it. But I'm wondering...is there a way to make a bard somewhat useful in combat, or is my role merely to give the monsters another moving target?

 

[shoplifter]

Sing. Sing often. That +1 bonus stacks with Bless IIRC. Bards tend to not be quite so much help in non-urban settings, but they can still be quite valuable played well.

At higher levels you'll be able to provide some GREAT support to the party. I'd almost recommend that you try to stay out of melee as much as possible, and use ranged attacks when you can. If you're allowed to use the WotC splats, think about taking the Extra Music feat. It's much more useful at low levels, though I think that its a gateway feat, much like Extra Turning.

 

[Tellerve]

At early levels Lullaby followed up by a Sleep spell. I think that'd be a nice thing for you to do as I'll take out more creatures faster than your rapier could.

Granted sleep would have to wait for 2nd level, but lessee, first level. I'd probably go with Inspire Courage and fire a bow from the back lines. Granted you wanted to be a rapier wielding bard, but I don't think up front is where you should be personnally. But if you must, get weapon finesse, have a decent dex, int, and charisma and fight defensively while inspiring courage with some rousing fight song and poke at the enemies with your rapier and hope for some crits

Tellerve

p.s. if you haven't noticed the later ability of Song of Freedom for a bard, you should look at it...it is break enchantment by singing! sweet!

 

[shoplifter]

p.s. if you haven't noticed the later ability of Song of Freedom for a bard, you should look at it...it is break enchantment by singing! sweet!

Heck yeah! I couldn't remember the exact wording for it so I didn't want to stick my foot in my mouth. That's a SIGNIGICANT increase in power for the bard.

 

[ForceUser]

Sing often. Diversify your attack spells - grab some that require Fort saves, others that require Will saves. When fighting big melee monsters, use the Will-save spells. If fighting casters, hit them with Fort saves.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Sing often. Diversify your attack spells - grab some that require Fort saves, others that require Will saves. When fighting big melee monsters, use the Will-save spells. If fighting casters, hit them with Fort saves.

Good points all. I haven't had a chance to examine the new bard's spell list (and the new versions of said spells) in depth yet, but playing my bard to the fullest will definitely require that I maximize the usefulness of his spellcasting abilities.

We're starting at 5th-level, and the character is currently slated as a Fighter2/Bard3 (to progress entirely in bard from here on.) I gave him the 2 fighter levels so that he could pick up Spring Attack early on, hopefully allowing him to throw his bit of damage into the melee pot without risking a big monster's full attack action. It also gives him proficiency with all martial weapons, meaning if we come up against a creature with DR, he can pick up a greatsword and at least try to break through its DR.

He'll have a longbow, and at 6th-level I'm considering taking Point-Blank shot, so he'll have the option of staying way back out of harm's way.

 

[shoplifter]

Yeah, I really haven't seen the new spell list yet either. I understand its MUCH more enchantment based. Which is prety cool if you ask me

And WEAR THAT CHAIN SHIRT now that there's no ASF with it on. That was the first thing I houseruled when 3e came out

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The Bard and the Druid have a similar problem. They have some excellent spells on their spell list, but having just the right spell at the right time is very diffcult. In the case Bard, this is because they only a few spells they know how to cast. For the Druid, it is because many of the most effective spells are too specialized to memorize normally. The Answer for both classes is the same...

Scrolls, scrolls, scrolls!

You have a reasonably diverse spell list, even if you only can cast a small number yourself. You can gain enormous flexibility by building up a library of scrolls. Once you hit ~10th, the UMD skill will open up any low level scroll to you!

It is not that you will rely on scrolls for everyday spell casting. Your goal is to have the perfect spell for any emergency.

 

[Darklone]

Don't forget spells like Message. They rock to organize ambushes or sneaky missions.

For battle: Magic Weapon was a no brainer, helps with damage and your song makes you on par with a fighter.
2 fighter levels... what about a reach weapon and Whirlwind???

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Strategizing a Singer.

Okay, so Bard Strategy thus-far:

1. Sing often. Possibly look into Extra Music (Song and Silence) as a way to gain more uses per day.

This sounds like good strategy, I'll definitely try to follow it. One of a bard's few unique abilities is Bardic Song, so best to make use of that as much as possible. A bard gets, what?, 3 uses per day? That probably means a use for every battle in a day, most days...

2. Use ranged attacks and avoid melee.

I've never been really keen on playing an archer. I guess I just don't like the idea of hanging back. However, the low damage a bard is capable of in melee (average strength and no sneak attack or power attack,) means I may have to consider it to be useful. Right now, my bard has only one attack, so his damage output is probably about even between a Spring Attack and an arrow from afar. When he gains multiple attacks, getting a full attack at range will trump a single Spring Attack.

I'd still prefer to be able to at least sometimes engage in melee, but unless my bard comes across a pretty sweet magic rapier, I may have to consider archery as the best means of contributing to party survival.

3. Diversify attack spells. Try and have spells that target all three saving throws.

Definitely. I'm not sure how diverse the new bard's spell list is (if it does indeed focus mostly on Enchantments, I'm guessing spells heavily weighted toward Will Saves,) but I'll do my best. If I put points into Use Magic Device, this becomes easier.

4. Wear a Chain Shirt, the bard can wear light armors without any ASF now, so take advantage of that.

Way ahead of ya. I'm hoping eventually for Mithril Scale Mail (light armor--thus no ASF, and in this campaign my bard's home country favors scale mail) but for now he's going to pick up a chain shirt right away.

5. Use scrolls to have a larger number of useful-but-rarely-used spells on hand at any time. Consider Use Magic Device to have even more low-level scrolls available.

I've never played a PC who invested in Use Magic Device. How many skill points are needed to reliably access other classes' scrolls? Is UMD worth it for other purposes?

6. Possibly consider a reach weapon and Whirlwind.

I'm definitely open to the idea of a reach weapon. He's got the fighter levels, so picking up a longspear or glaive is definitely an idea. Along with Spring Attack, it'd allow him to attack, while staying away from his foes for the most part. I'm not sure about Whirlwind, though. That'd require him to be in the thick of things, and with a d6 for hp and no way to wear heavy armor, I'm not sure that's where he wants to be.

Other tips? Pointers from experience? Any magic items that are particularly useful for a bard (other than a Cloak of Charisma)?