D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Help needed in creating a Sorcerer (4th Lvl)

[Buck Godot]

Hiya everyone....

I'm a long time lurker who decied to finally decloak and ask a question.

I've seen in a lot of threads that people feel that a sorcerer is superior (or at least on par) with a wizard in 3.0/3.5.

However in the games I've played in, our groups have looked at the Sorcerer and turned up their noses (lack of known spells, lack of feats, behind on spell progession, ect). I've always felt the Sorcerer was viable, but never got the chance to play one.

Now I am in the position to create a 4th lvl Sorcerer, using Core Rules and Splatbooks (+Magic of Fareun). I'm interested in creating a Sorcerer who specializes in metamagic, but I would like some insight on what feats, spells, and magic items I should be getting.

Here are the particulars:

Human, 4th lvl. 20 hp
STR 12
DEX 13
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 13
CHR 18 (was 17... became 18 at 4th lvl)

Has NPC starting cash (house rule) of 3,300 gp.

We have a (at least one) bard in the party, so he wont be the *only* spellcaster, if that matters, but he will probably be the primary spellcaster. And this is for a group that consists of 3rd to 4th lvl characters.

Thanks in advance for any help in proving that Sorcerers don't suck.

John

PS: Also, any ideas on what I should be thinking about for (if) this character advances in levels would also be greatly appreciated.

 

[JoeBlank]

Currently playing my first sorcerer, just made 6th level.

His spell selection at 5th level: 0--detect magic, detect poison, enchanting flavor, lesser charm, light, mage hand; 1st-charm person, color spray, mage armor, magic missile; 2nd--alter self, glitterdust.

Be wary of the changes to Alter Self, if there are no winged humanoids in your campaign then it loses a lot of utility.

Feats: Spellcasting Prodigy, Subtle Spell (from the Netbook of Feats, allows him to conceal the fact that he is casting a spell with a spellcraft check, opposed by a a spot check).

The Subtle Spell is more for flavor. Sculpt Spell from Tome & Blood is fantastic, but wait until 6th level so you actually have some spells to Sculpt. Spellcasting Prodigy, if you are using FRCS materials too, is very powerful, especially considering the Spell Focus nerfs.

If I were playing a human sorcerer, I'd be tempted to take Eschew Materials, Silent Spell and Still Spell as my first three feats. Able to cast a spell in just about any circumstance, pretty handy.

For magic items, a Cloak of Charisma is an obvious goal. Cloak of Resistance is nice too.

Be sure to take either Acid Splash or Ray of Frost as one of your 0-level selections, and then don't worry about carrying weapons.

Have fun!

 

[Tabarnak Smokeblower]

Welcome to the boards (we've been waiting for you...)

Acid splash for 0-level is pretty cool. You can (I think) use that acid on objects.

Spellcasting prodigy is indeed a really good feat.

As for spells... well, for a sorceror, there are a few that are quite the no-brainer. magic missile for one, and mage armor for a little bit of protection. For 2nd level, alter self and glitterdust are the obligatory choices, since they're the most versatile.

Try aiming for a PrC, since the sorceror class doesn't bring you much (except the ability to switch spells at even levels... damn, anyone know if prestige classes now grant this ability?)

Hope this helps!

TS

 

[Technik4]

Couple Builds for you.

Ray Blaster 6/3/1
0: Detect Magic, Read Magic, Light, Ray of Frost (R), Disrupt Undead (R)
1: Magic Missile, Ray of Enfeeblement (R), Mage Armor or Shield*
2: Scorching Ray (R)

STR 12
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 13
CHR 17

I raised the dexterity a little (over Charisma) because this build focuses on Rays (and therefore Ranged Touch Attacks). Wouldn't hurt to pick up a crossbow now and then, if you want a back-up weapon. Charisma isn't as critical to this build because most of your spells won't have saves (but require ranged touch attacks). Alternately, you could switch Intelligence and Dexterity and give the +1 to Cha if you are concerned about Skill Points.

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Empower Spell, Energy Substitution

Alternates: Spellcasting Prodigy (its a great feat, always applicable) or Bloodline of Fire (if you wish to be from Calimshan).

Down the Road: Pick up a defensive 2nd level spell or one with good utility (Glitterdust is a perennial favorite). 3rd level will be Ray of Exhaustion and Empowered Ray of Enfeeblements. 4th level will be Enervation and Empowered Scorching Rays. You can always sub out the type of energy on Scorching Ray so that will be your main attack spell until high levels (until Disintegrate basically).

Since most of your needs are covered by one attack spell (and empowering it as needed) you can pick up a lot of buffs or defensive spells, or a mix, If its something really specialized, get a scroll or a wand. Definitely get the Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration feats, and perhaps the feat from DotF that lets you change touch spells into rays (giving you more options at higher levels).



Shadow Enchanter 6/3/1
0: Detect Magic, Daze, Light, Message, Read Magic, Prestidigation
1: Charm Person, Nybor's Gentle Reminder, Shield or Mage Armor*
2: Tasha's Hideous Laughter

STR 12
DEX 13
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 13
CHR 18

This build is extremely focused on DCs (compared to the last) so you want to seek out Cha-bonus items immediately, as well as bump it every 4 levels. Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration are still necessary.

Feats: Shadow Weave Magic, Spell Focus: Enchantment, Still Spell
Alternates: Spellcasting Prodigy (its awesome) or a feat which gives Charisma Skill bonuses (if you are less of a hack n slash game).

Down The Road: 4th level sees you fairly set up. Nybor's Reminder is a great way to stop a spellcaster for one turn (Fort Save) and they aren't likely to benefit from the circumstance bonus to strength. Charm Person is your diplomatic card and Tasha's is your combat. Shadow Adept could be a good prc, although it requires you to be a little darker (non-good). You could still get along alright with a good-aligned party.

This build is less of a combat one and more of a slick behind the scenes character. Pick up the various dazes, charms, and dominates while picking utility spells as well. Due to your shadowy nature transmutations and evocations should be avoided (unless they are Darkness descriptored). Message is still a nice 0-level spell, lasts 30 minutes (instead of 40). Spell Focus (Illusion) or (Necromancy) could lead to Archmage status down the road, so don't neglect them!


Make sure you just go with a cohesive theme. Necromancies, Illusions, and Enchantments (mixed-bag with enchantments really) all got buffed, so try and use this to your advantage. Think of yourself as a specialist mage without restrictions, so paint your magic in broad strokes (Ray specialist instead of Necromancer or Evoker; Shadow Enchanter lends itself to 3 schools instead of any one of them). Eschew Materials can be a nice feat for either of these builds but in most campaigns it is entirely a flavor thing (as a spell component pouch is an assumed item). Try persuading your DM to give it to sorcerors at first level for free, or don't stress it. Also try switching in skills (Craft or Profession for Diplomacy or Intimidate for instance) so you have good out-of-combat applicability too.

Overall your sorceror is what you make of it, and don't forget to integrate your familiar into your overall character scheme. The first build might have waited for a Beholder-kin Eyeball (A ray-specialist familiar) or taken a hawk or owl (for their perceptive skills). The second would be more at home with a rat, bat, or cat (heh) to go with their overall darker nature.

Edited: *- Almost forgot. I would take one or the other (Shield or Mage Armor) at 4th level. Shield is good if you intend to be able to predict battles where you will be in danger, and is nice against arcane opponents because of immunity to Magic Missile. Mage Armor is better with parties that go delving for days upon days (without visits back to town). You get a lot more mileage out of it, plus it can be cast on friendly monks, animal companions, or your own familiar! The upshot is that you can buy an item to emulate mage armor (AC-wise) and you can't for Shield. Its largely an issue of how the party dynamics are going to work, not to mention your own preference.

Technik

 

[Jens]

Deleted

 

[Jens]

Deleted this as well

 

[Jens]

Will you be using PrCs? As you probably know, sorcerers lose very little when taking a PrC so it's usually beneficial to go that way.

If you want to be good at metamagic and use MoF, how about the Incantatrix? It's very good if you can get the Knowledge (Planes) requirement, it can take you all the way to Archmage levels. [It may be possible to convince your DM to give you K(P) as a class skill, maybe by giving up something else.]

Imo, a sorcerer's greatest weakness is the limited number of spells known. Two PrCs give extra spells known, the Divine Oracle and the Sacred Exorcist, both from DotF. If you can get both K(P) and Knowledge (Religion), the Sacred Exorcist from DotF is very tasty; in addition to more spells known it gives cleric HD and BAB. Thematically, I think Sacred Exorcist goes very well with Incantatrix; the 'problem' is that both are really good It is *possible* to get the required knowledge ranks without the feat Educated (I think that's the name); it's in FRCS, but you'll have to plan ahead and take extra PrCs to get there. If you want to go this way, it may be better to just take the feat and be done with it.

For something completely different, how about a Shadow Adept (FRCS)? It focuses on Necromancies, Illusions, and Enchantments.

Necromancies, Illusions, and Enchantments (mixed-bag with enchantments really) all got buffed, so try and use this to your advantage.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'm having a blast playing a sorcerer who avoided the typical "must have" spells. This is a 3e built and won't work so well at 3.5e because of the change to endure elements. She is planned around (broadly) fire and charm magics.

0th - don't remember, never use them. Not prestidigitation or mage hand though.
1st - endure elements, burning hands, charm person.
2nd - pyrotechnics.

at 5th level she picked up Protection from Evil (1st) and Combustion (2nd, FR)


She has a 14 CON, and in a party mainly of elves, she has the highest hit points (rolled max hp at levels 2, 3 & 5, only dropped one point at 4th!). No toad familiar

She'd typically use burning hands to ignite stuff (we're doing a lot of grassland adventuring at the moment, hooray!) and then stand in that protected (mostly) by endure elements.

In 3.5e Endure Elements is nerfed tremendously, becoming useless for a sorcerer which is a shame. Combustion at 2nd level can be replaced with the far superiour scorching ray though.

Her feats at 4th level were silent spell, still spell and enlarge spell - for enlarged burning hands, primarily. This of course has been nerfed in 3.5e and it will probably be replaced by eschew materials.

Her 6th level feat was going to be spell focus(enchantment), but since that is only +1 in 3.5e I don't think I'll be going that way after all.

Cheers

 

[Darklone]

Uhm, why do you take Weapon Focus Rays instead of Point Blank Shot (which also increases the damage and is usable with the crossbow too)?

 

[Technik4]

I don't know, good point! I was just coming up with some stuff by flipping through books, those werent actual sorcerors I've played (although I would like to). Thanks for the correction. The only time WF (Ray) is superior is at a range greater than 30 ft., and since all of those spells are usually close, it won't happen too terribly often.

Technik

Uhm, why do you take Weapon Focus Rays instead of Point Blank Shot (which also increases the damage and is usable with the crossbow too)?