D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Hide Skill Ruling

[Wraithdrit]

Hey all,

Something came up in my game. We have two characters with extremely high Hide Skill.

So I started examining hide the other day and I think I've been using it wrong.

The skill talks about requiring cover or concealment to use (otherwise what is the point of Hide In Plain Sight?). Good enough.

But once hidden, can you move? You can move and THEN hide (according to the rules). But can you move around in cover and not become visible? Can you move from piece of cover to piece of cover without becoming visible?

What are your thoughts?

Here is what I have ruled so far. Per the rules you must have cover to hide. Once hidden if you move into a square without cover you will be automatically seen by anyone observing that area. You can move from piece of cover to piece of cover, if there are no clear squares between. Each move takes a hide check, but there is no autoreveal.

Examples: Player moves from behind boxes to a stack of barrels some five feet away. On the map the player has moved from a cover square, to a cover square with no squares between, so he makes a hide roll. If successful he was never seen.

Player then moves from barrels to another stack of boxes ten feet away. On the board there is a clear five feet between the two. If there is anyone actively observing that area then they will see him move across the opening, but another hide check is allow once behind the new cover.

What I am trying to prevent is players waltzing through the middle of cleared rooms right up to guards behind barricades and attacking with sneak attacks, etc. The guards only have 6-10 spot checks, but there is no way you can move through clear terrain up to them and gack them without them seeing you. I'm not talking moving around them or anything like, I mean moving right up in front of them.

Thoughts? Opinions?

- Wraith

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

3.5 PHB: "You can move up to half your normal speed and hide at no penalty ..."

 

[Philip]

What I am trying to prevent is players waltzing through the middle of cleared rooms right up to guards behind barricades and attacking with sneak attacks, etc. The guards only have 6-10 spot checks, but there is no way you can move through clear terrain up to them and gack them without them seeing you. I'm not talking moving around them or anything like, I mean moving right up in front of them.

I think you should allow characters to move through clear terrain as long as they end up in a square with concealment or cover. I think you should solve the problem by giving the characters penalties on their Hide checks, maybe something like -5 per 5 feet of clear terrain crossed. I makes for a much more exciting game instead of just flat-out saying its impossible.

And if the characters in question can make his Hide check on a 1 when one of the guards is rolling a 20 on his Spot check, you should examine how the characters got such high Hide skills in the first place and do something about that instead.

 

[Wraithdrit]

High Dex +4 (or higher!), Cloak of Elvenkind, 13 ranks of hide = +27 without breaking much of a sweat. Average roll 37.

Guard... no chance.

Just doesn't make sense.

By Olgar's quote, if you move half speed I could hide outside a room, then move half speed (15 ft/rnd) across a football field sized room and get to you, and be standing right in front of you and make a sneak attack.

Some sort of sanity check needs to come into play here!

I may think about the -5 per five foot of cleared space moved through.

 

[iwatt]

I don't remember if this was in a splat book or a house rule, but I seem to recall a "rule" that you had to end your move in at least 1/2 cover, but could at least move in the "clear" for a distance no higher than the # ranks in hide you had. So someone with 10 ranks could move from one piece of cover through 10´of open space, and finish behind another piece of cover.

 

[Wraithdrit]

oooh. I like that. And its similar to part of the rule for bluffing and then hiding. You have to be with in Rank# of feet from cover in order to bluff someone and then be able to dash into cover.

Good call!

 

[Tellerve]

In song and silence I believe they have something about being able to get close enough to someone through hiding that if you were within' an amount of feet equal to your hide check then you could move up and he would be caught unaware of you (at least visually). I'm not sure if the same/similar ruling that iwatt was talking about is in Song and Silence as well, but probably was and I just forgot it.

As for guards watching a certain area, like a hallway, pass, or whatever the case. I'd give them some severe bonus to their spot check if your just staring at some spot. In the realm of +10 to +20. Normally a spot check represents the general awareness (visually) of a character to notice all around him (hence no bonuses).

Also, have your characters peak out from cover and watch the guards, when they aren't looking they cross the distance. If the guards are fixed upon their position then give them the spot bonus or make it near automatic. This allows the players to do the movie shtick of throwing the rock/whatever to some other point and draw the attention of the guards away for a moment and allow them to move safetly.

Tellerve

EDIT: Sorry, when I said as close as your hide check I really meant hide ranks. So if you had 15 ranks in hide, if you got within 15 feet of someone before they saw you, you could close the 15' to them. This makes it so people with high rolls can't come up from 40' away, and is more tied into their "training" of ranks as opposed to magical items and such

 

[Wraithdrit]

Good ideas as well. Thanks. Spot bonuses for catching someone move through an area specifically being watched is a good one.

 

[Tellerve]

Yep, remember also to check those listen checks. You could also give guards active listening bonuses if they are concentrating on one area, however, I don't think the bonuses should be as high, since humans and well most pc races aren't massively good listeners.

Tellerve

 

[Pielorinho]

I like Tellerve's idea, and might codify it as follows:

Focused Spot: any PC may choose to watch in a specific direction, enhancing their ability to spot anything in that direction. Choose a cone in which the PC's spot check is unaffected. The PC takes a penalty of up to -20 to their spot check for anything outside of that cone. In addition, draw a line down the center of the cone. The PC gains a bonus of up to +20 to their spot check for anything intercecting that line. The bonus to this check equals the chosen penalty for spot checks outside the cone.

Does that make sense? In other words, you can choose to stare straight ahead, gaining (for example) +20 to spot checks vs. anything right in front of you. You can see normally for 45 degrees to either side of you, but take a penalty equal to the chosen bonus for spotting anything beyond those 45 degrees.

Daniel